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Will baqnning felt soles prevent the introduction of microorganisms into new waters?

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COCarp said:
Has anyone tied a zebra snail or mud snail fly yet? Might just be the next big carp fly on 11mi???
That's RICH!!! I heard the Great lakes are thriving better than they have in YEARS thanks to a tiny little muscle ???
 

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. said:
COCarp said:
Has anyone tied a zebra snail or mud snail fly yet? Might just be the next big carp fly on 11mi???
That's RICH!!! I heard the Great lakes are thriving better than they have in YEARS thanks to a tiny little muscle ???
I recently heard this too.
 
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. said:
COCarp said:
Has anyone tied a zebra snail or mud snail fly yet? Might just be the next big carp fly on 11mi???
That's RICH!!! I heard the Great lakes are thriving better than they have in YEARS thanks to a tiny little muscle ???
Dead WRONG !

Lived a block off Lake Mich for 35yrs, its actually devastated the fishing industry. used to catch buckets of perch whenever you wanted, but now with the Zebras and Gobies, there is now a slot limit and season. Youre lucky to catch 10 in a week now. The Smelt runs are now a thing of the past, the Salmon have taken a huge hit as well.
What has happened, is the mussels are filter feeders, and have cleared the water so much that algae/weeds now grow ad greater depths, there is a crash in the zooplankton that feeds the fry and other organisims.... the system has crashed from the bottom up.

Not to mention most tributaries are now screwed, with literally a foot of mussel shells covering the bottom. Saw this on the Muskegon River a couple yrs back for a competition, i was standing on what i thought was soft bottom till i kicked up a huge cloud of mussel shells.
 
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So you are saying the mussels cleaned up what was sewer like dirty water?
Big time, you can now see right thru 20ft of water, where in the past you couldnt see bottom in 10ft.
 

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I'm still kind of a rookie when it comes to the flyfishing world - but I'm assuming the people that are against the banning have already purchased expensive felt soles? Just a thought...

I've heard several other states already ban felt - must be something to it...
 

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T.Weezy said:
I'm still kind of a rookie when it comes to the flyfishing world - but I'm assuming the people that are against the banning have already purchased expensive felt soles? Just a thought...

I've heard several other states already ban felt - must be something to it...
Beside the price, there are safety issues
 

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Silent_Light said:
Dead WRONG !



Not quite dead wrong. Some fish are adapting, like walleyes and smallmouth. The bio-sequestration provided by the mussels has dramatically reduced the measured amounts of metals and organic toxins. I might recommend that a person not eat the mussels... :p

The gobies have had their own impact. The bass LOVE them, and they are now present in greater numbers, and in greater sizes, than ever before.

The spiny water flea may actually be as much a culprit in the negative impacts seen in filter feeders. Bythotrephes Longimanus is an armored type of zooplankton that is nasty fare, and devours other (native) zooplankton. Thus the recruitment of juvenile gamefish, which feed heavily on plankton, is diminished.

So, thought it is not quite an ideal situation, it is the reality that there HAVE been positive impacts from some of the exotics to go along with the negative impacts.

As for the original question, I think a felt ban would perhaps slow the spread of exotics, but it can not be curtailed... just my take.

SS
 

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. said:
T.Weezy said:
I'm still kind of a rookie when it comes to the flyfishing world - but I'm assuming the people that are against the banning have already purchased expensive felt soles? Just a thought...

I've heard several other states already ban felt - must be something to it...
Beside the price, there are safety issues

You mean slipping all over the place? What about studs or the Klingon addons?
 

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I currently attend the University of Notre Dame. There are a lot of high-caliber scientists who have worked on the Great Lakes and the invasive species problems for decades, I currently work with four through my labs, classwork, and extracurriculars.

All of them say that the Great Lakes are a shadow of what they were just 20 years ago. The fishing has improved only because there is almost no food left--we are at the beginning of a bottom-up food chain collapse that will further devastate the lakes.

I can tell you from personal experience that the great lakes and the surrounding waterways are a cautionary tale as to what can go wrong when people exploit the environment without consideration to the consequences. You can't eat a damn thing out here because of the contaminants (many of which are nastier than mere mercury: PCBs, prescription drugs, and arsenic just to name the most prevalent), and many of the waters aren't worth fishing because of channelization, eutrophication, invasive species, and overwhelming movement towards privatization.

Believe me, you don't want in CO what they have here in IN, MI, and IL. The fishing is still "good", simply because there's more water and more nutrients, but that only highlights how unbelievably far many of these fisheries have fallen. What people consider "good" out here doesn't hold a candle to what was "good" just 10 years ago.

The only lake where the fishing might have improved due to the introduction of invasives is Erie, which was the most polluted of the 5. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the rest have suffered immensely. You'd think that we would have learned our lesson at this point, but pioneering work by Dr. Gary Lamberti and Dr. Lodge have already found silver carp DNA in Lake Michigan, indicating that the worst is yet to come for the Great lakes... and we've yet to do anything about this problem.

It's a good thing that CO is being so proactive about this issue. I get mad at the regs sometimes, too, but relative to everything else, the CDOW does a pretty unbelievable job.
 

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Brookie-

I understand that the carp were introduced via aquaculture, but the majority of the invasives have come in via ballast water from transoceanic vessels.

Is there simply no way to prevent discharge of contaminated ballast? Can they do anything to sterilize the ballast tanks? ???

At what point does the loss of the fishery and the ecosystem outweigh (in dollars) the gain in dollars that such vessels represent? I really have no idea, but it is a question that has crossed my mind more than once.

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"Will baqnning felt soles prevent the introduction of microorganisms into new waters?"

In all reality, we don't know. There is currently conflicting reports regarding the role of waterfowl and other large organisms on the spread of certain invasives, most notably the zebra mussel and eurasian milfoil. However, we do know that felt-soled boots are a major vector of invasive species, as are recreational boats, ballast water, and the aquarium/aquaculture trade. All four of these factors need to be mitigated, and a good first step is banning felt soles, then monitoring recrational boat traffic (aka boat inspections), then creating incentives to help discourage both unsound ballast and aquaculture practices.

Shaun Solomon said:
Brookie-

I understand that the carp were introduced via aquaculture, but the majority of the invasives have come in via ballast water from transoceanic vessels.

Is there simply no way to prevent discharge of contaminated ballast? Can they do anything to sterilize the ballast tanks? ???

At what point does the loss of the fishery and the ecosystem outweigh (in dollars) the gain in dollars that such vessels represent? I really have no idea, but it is a question that has crossed my mind more than once.

SS
They're currently working on solutions to that. The best solution so far has been to encourage ships to exchange ballast before entering the St. Lawrence Seaway. That way, they're using saltwater as ballast, and once the ballast is re-exchanged at port, anything in the saltwater dies upon meeting the freshwater. It's not perfect and there's currently nothing on the books that would prevent ships from not doing that (damn shipping lobby/fractured enforcement).

I'm honestly in the dark when it comes to the economics of it. I don't know how much money it costs them to exchange ballast, nor do I know of any other preventative measures at this time...

Hopefully I'll be the guy to come up with the solution. That'd be sweet. Should probably do my homework, huh? :D

As I said, I'm a just a current student, so I've pretty much given you all I know. I'm not pretending to be an expert, I'm just passing on what the experts tell me. I hope this adds something worthwhile to the discussion. :)
 

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Thank you for the response, Brookie. That is interesting information. I had wondered if there was a way to do that, but I don't understand how the ballast water intake/discharge works, or if there was a way to discharge contaminated ballast safely while still at sea. It should be made law.

As far as the economics, I would like to live in a world where people would do the right thing because it was the right thing to do, not because it was economically viable. I fully understand that saying that makes me a homosexual un-patriotic hippie eco-terrorist, but I ain't gonna lie just to look good to my redneck brethren. I yam what I yam.

You know a lot more than most people about the topic. It is refreshing to have comments from an educated and informed source. Thanks!

SS
 
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