Colorado Fisherman Forum banner

BlueGills as Bait fish

12K views 80 replies 14 participants last post by  ctnugfan 
if they are dead then they are fine anywhere bait is allowed, if you transport them live you could run into problems i dont have the quotes handy but there are spots that say transporting live fish from one body of water to another is prohibited, yet it also in another spot says transportation of live fish with a fishing license for bait is ok, and it clearly points out that live bluegill are bait. might be a good question to email the dow about.

personaly if the lake i was taking them to did not have bluegill i would say that was a bad idea, if the lake had bluegill but for some reason it was easyer to catch them elsewhere i wouldnt see the problem. unless there are diseases that the gills could be carrying like trout and whirling disease

if your going to assume something assume that it is prohibited. the dow frowns highly on "bucket biologist" and if caught your first warning might cost you enough points on your license to sideline you for a few years. i would not do it unless i got clairification from dow, got to the dow website and find the contact information and send them an email.

good luck
 
bobber said:
it's illegal to transport live fish without a permit.
POSSESSION LIMIT - Max. number of fish allowed at any time, including in the field, while
transporting, at home or other place of storage. Transporting live fish without proper permits is
prohibited
according to the above statement, it would be illegal to transport shinners from the bait store to any lake

from the dow regs
http://wildlife.state.co.us/NR/rdonlyres/4D6FFAC6-64EB-4516-A5E9-AE91B7392A95/0/Ch00.pdf

ARTICLE VII - AQUATIC WILDLIFE
#010 – TRANSPORTATION OF AQUATIC WILDLIFE
A. All aquatic wildlife being transported within Colorado must at all times be accompanied by,
and may only be transported within Colorado pursuant to:
1. A personal or commercial fishing license,
2. A donation certificate,
3. A receipt from a commercial or private lake licensee, permitted aquaculture facility or
permitted pet animal facility,
4. An aquaculture facility permit,
5. A pet animal facility permit,
6. An importation permit, or
7. A bill of lading or other similar documentation evidencing that the wildlife is being
transported through Colorado for delivery in another state and containing the name,
address and phone number of both the source and receiving person or facility.
Original documentation is only required when transporting aquatic wildlife pursuant to a
personal or commercial fishing license, a donation certificate or any kind of receipt. In all
other cases, legible copies of the required documents will suffice.
B. Live aquatic wildlife may only be transported pursuant to a personal fishing license (aquatic
wildlife for use as bait only)
, a commercial fishing license, a receipt from a permitted
aquaculture or pet animal facility, an aquaculture facility permit, a pet animal facility permit, an
importation license, or a bill of lading or other similar documentation.

this part say it is ok as it does not include a limitation on fish, just says aquatic wildelife

lots of gray area here some people have gotten away with it, but that doesnt me everyone will. i would send the email to dow and then print out the reply including the name and contact info of the one answering your question and be prepared to provide it, either to a ranger or in court if you get a ticket
 
rvinson said:
E-mail came back as un deliverable so i went to http://wildlife.state.co.us/About/askdow/
and filled out the form. Either way we should have the results sometime.. Not sure what the turn around time is for DOW so we will have to wait and see.
turnaround is ussualy a couple days, unless you stump them and they hav eto pass the question on to someone else. then it might take a few more days
 
the question is not wheather you can use them as bait, but if you can bring them in from another body of water. and we seam to be having 2 different answers. along with bringing in fish that even though you have no intention of releaseing the fact is some will get off the hook and survive. you would also be bringing in a water sample that could have all sorts of unknown critters to contaminate a new lake.

i would have to go with the response in writting, not the word of mouth over the fone, that dude could deny ever saying that.

i have always felt that the way the laws where written was that the only baitfish you could transport was stuff you had bought from a dealer. and that seam to be holding true
 
we have 2 dow guys pointing out 2 differing opinions on the subject. the one over the fone quoted possesion and bait rules, the other guy via email quoted transportation rules. and he is escalating the question for further clairification.

there is NO CLEAR answer as of yet.

from my past run ins with the law, there is no sure fire way to defend yourself if you get busted for attempting to stock. you would have a hard time convincing them that you were only using them as bait not "stocking"

it would be interesting to forward the negitive email on to the guy we heard from on the fone, to hear his response. this demonstrates the differing inturpratation of the regs even with in the dow. my suggestion is that if the final word we get hear is that it is ok to transport bluegill and any other legal baitfish captured in the wild legaly from one lake to another for use as bait. then i would make sure i got a printed copy of that statement with the contact info and keep it with me. because it is obvious a gray area and makes for the distinct chance of a negitive confrontation with the law in the field, butter safe then sorry.


personaly i hope that it is illegal to do this. with all the problems of invasive critters. moving fish and water samples from one lake to another is just asking for trouble. i hope it comes down that you can only use bait caught in the water you are fishing. or store bought baitfish. and on that note i hope the state has some regs inplace to make sure farmed and or imported baitfish at the stores are not carring invasive critters

looking forward to how this turns out
 
zman said:
I only use live bluegills where they already exist...
do you use them onlyat the lake where you catch them, or would you catch them at one lake and use them at another that already had a population of gills?
 
i think thats a good practice. use them at the lake you caught them

imagine someone going to plow bagging a batch of gills and then heading over to brush hollow to use them for bait, when they got caught and carried the bucket they used and the water in it could easily carry them zebra mussel larva. then everytime the guy baits up at brush some of the water from the bucket is going to get in the lake potentialy transfering the zebras there.

similar things could happen with whirling disease and them newzeland mudsnails
 
popofisherman said:
Well that is what I use for bait, and shade, back in Nebraska for those nice plump cats.

I would like to be able to use live sucker above 7000 ft. It would be soooo nice. But then Waterdogs work just as well.
the question and issue is not what you can use for bait where, but the possible spread of invasive critters even if you are using a legal bait
 
atownbasser said:
Roadkill,

You can catch minnows and small suckers in creeks where it is legal to take bait fish and transport them to the lake to use as bait, just as you would transfer them from the bait store to the lake.

Bluegills are no different.
You can catch them somewhere and use them wherever you want.

I always release gills but I do catch small suckers from creeks and use them. It is not illegal.
you do not have a regulation that specificaly suports your statement and you statement is in direct oposition to the email from the dow presented here. it boils down to interpretaion of words like "stocking" does the accidental release of a hooked minow or gill constitute stocking.

show me a quote from a regulation that specificaly states it is ok to use wild caught live baitfish from one body of water in another. there is not one. i agree the wording is not there that specificaly says you cant either. buit the logic be hind the rules would suport the side saying to not transfer fish or inverabrates or anything from one body of water to another. we will have to wait and see what comes back from dow.

and i stand by my opinion that to do as you suggest is irresponsible and that action could easily spread the many different invasive critters that we are trying so hard to prevent.
 
atownbasser said:
I am not stocking I am using them as bait, and according to your logic even a minnow bought at the bait store that gets off a hook is somehow stocking.

And I also suppose you think that using crawdad or even a crawdad tail that you trapped from a different body of water is somehow illegal.
i would say live craws should only be used in the body of water they are caught in.

as for the store bought minows i also pointed out that i hoped there were some sort of regs to keep those fish contaminate free. i do know they have to have permits especialy the truck driver moveing them from source to store

you may feel that you are not stocking but without a legal definition that could back fire. you know that some of your minows get off the hook and that some may survive, even though that is unintentional it could be considered stocking. using the defense i didnt mean to i was only useing them for bait is like me beating the crap out of a guy haveing him die and then saying i didnt mean to kill him when they charge you with murder? a little more extreme but same logic, intent does not alway match the outcome.

we need to wait and see what comes down from dow before stating weather it is or is not legal. definatly some big time gray area.

and i still stand by my opinion that it is not a wise practice and to do so shows major disrespect for the fishery in the current time due to invasive critters. if you dont care about helping the spread of these invasives thats sad
 
rvinson said:
Got a reply from Bob Fisher DOW

Hi Ricky,

You are correct; a fisherperson may use live Bluegills as bait in waters where bait is permitted. The body of water cannot be above 7000 feet in elevation.



ILLEGAL TRANSFER OF FISH: It is illegal for anyone other than DOW or someone with

an aquaculture license, stocking permit or private or commercial lake license to stock or release fish

into Colorado waters. It is illegal to move fish between waters. Illicit stocking can have far-reaching

effects on fish populations, including sport fish. In Western Colorado, such introductions pose serious

threats to native fish from predation and competition, and often harm native fish recovery.




The information directly above is on page 6 # 10 in the 2008 Colorado Fishing and Property Directory.

I hope this information will help out.

Thank you and have a nice day
the reg does say you can use them for bait and although it does not specificaly state that you cant move them from lake to lake, it also does not say you can

but the reg quoted above clearly states that you can not transfer any live fish and uses the word "release" that mean getting loose by any means weather intentional or not. it does not use the wording "intentionaly release" just plain and simple release. so it would be very resonable for the dow to ticket you under those regs just for transporting them from one lake to another and they would be justified in doing it before you "released" any of them. and as the one reply stated that is how they see it, yes we have a conflicting answer from another dow person. but i dont see how the reg i quoted could or should be interpreted any other way, release is release. not to mention any other contaminates in the water used to transport the fish
 
atownbasser said:
The regulation that you just quoted says: It is illegal to move fish between waters

But we all know that transporting minnows is legal. Therefore transport bluegills would be legal as well, sinse the regs define both species as baitfish.

Bottom line is I think you are misinterpreting that section of the regs you just quoted. It is dealing with the illegal stocking or release of fish. There is a difference between "Bucket Biology" and using a fish that is designated in the regs as a bait fish.

I will continue to catch my own live suckers and crawdads and use them wherever I please below 7000 ft. and east of the divide.
no we dont know, mater of fact that reg makes it illegal to transport any fish from one body of water to another,

perch are also perfectly legal to use as bait. no where in the regs does it say you can catch bait in one place and use it in another. but it clearly says no transporting live fish. and goes on about the possible introduction of invasive critters.

we both may be interpreting the reg wrong, but at least i will practice the safe way till proven other wise. if you dont care thats a problem for all of us. by being selfish you could be introducing things like newzeland mud snails evey time you transport your bait. are you cool with that? i am not.
 
thats the problem, to your knowledge. a couple weeks ago we could have said the same thing about pueblo. but it is clear they didnt just pop up in the last few weeks. if someone following your logic had traped or caught some gills and put them in a floating minow bucket and then went to another lake and ploped that bucket in the water. you have the distinct possibility of have introduced the zebra mussel larva. and the whole time while you thought your source was clean. then when you find out down the road that pueblo or your source was contaminated, what are you going to say? sorry?

just look at the new boat inspections for the different lakes around colorado, they wont let you bring in a wet boat from another lake you think they want you bringing in a bucket full of water?

times are changing lets stop old dangerous behaviors before they cause any more problems
 
rearing ponds like hatcheries can be inspected and things can be done to deal with that. like i said they need licenses.

to stick our heads in the sand and say well it is only peublo right now and assume all other waters are safe. is not a wise approach.

and that still does not absolve you from the reg that says no releasing fish into another body of water. no where do it say how you release just no release. niether you or anyone else can be certain that fish you use as bait wont get accidently released in to the new lake. that is specificaly prohibited.

in a separate sentance the reg also says "It is illegal to move fish between waters" it says nothing about release it says nothing about intent. just plain and simple "It is illegal to move fish between waters". we as sports men need to stop reading what we want to read and see the rules for what they are and why they are there. do it right and protect the waters of the state

and i will thru this out there one more time because they say 3rd times a charm
the direct quote from the regs. simple.
It is illegal to move fish between waters

we can sit here and argue what the reg is till we turn blue in the face. or we can wait for the info to be resolved and we here back from the dow. and at the same time we could think about the consequences of brazen disrespect for the meaning of the regs, that is to protect our lakes and streams from invasive pests.
 
atownbasser said:
Here's the whole paragraph from the regs:

10. ILLEGAL TRANSFER OF FISH: It is illegal for anyone other than DOW or someone with
an aquaculture license, stocking permit or private or commercial lake license to stock or release fish into Colorado waters. It is illegal to move fish between waters. Illicit stocking can have far-reaching effects on fish populations, including sport fish. In Western Colorado, such introductions pose serious threats to native fish from predation and competition, and often harm native fish recovery.

The intent of this paragraph is "bucket biology", not using bait fish.

But as the reg is now you can use bait fish in the ways I have described earlier in this thread.

I think next years regs will be much more specific in light of this whole zebra mussel fiasco.
for you to assume the intent is not for bait fish is a dangerous assumption. and bucket biology is a slang term coined by people and it could very well include anything transported from one body of water to another weather by accident as hitch hikers or by malicious intent

since the reg does not specify and say something like
"It is illegal to move sport fish between waters"
nor does it say
"It is illegal to move invasive fish between waters"

it says fish, plain and simple. and no where does it say that you can capture baitfish in one lake and use them in another. that is just an assumtion on your part.

i hope the regs are clarified soon. since some folks will continue to endanger our lakes just because they assume. stop assuming and play it safe. havent we in this state had enough problems from those that skirt the issues. mudsnails are just one example, lets not repete with zebra muscles
 
thanks man, i needed that

peace out, i am off to dream
 
rvinson said:
Got a reply from Bob Fisher DOW

Hi Ricky,

You are correct; a fisherperson may use live Bluegills as bait in waters where bait is permitted. The body of water cannot be above 7000 feet in elevation.



ILLEGAL TRANSFER OF FISH: It is illegal for anyone other than DOW or someone with

an aquaculture license, stocking permit or private or commercial lake license to stock or release fish

into Colorado waters. It is illegal to move fish between waters. Illicit stocking can have far-reaching

effects on fish populations, including sport fish. In Western Colorado, such introductions pose serious

threats to native fish from predation and competition, and often harm native fish recovery.



The information directly above is on page 6 # 10 in the 2008 Colorado Fishing and Property Directory.

I hope this information will help out.

Thank you and have a nice day
this was the original response, guess we can only use live bait fish in the same waters that they were caught in.
 
fishingkats said:
your killing me roadkill hahaha that funny


when using gills as bait it like using minnows

dont set them free when your done fishing


but unlike minnows you can only have a fixed number of gills
sorry the dow response and second follow up response clearly stated you can not move fish between waters.

buying fish from a bait store and taking them to a lake is not moving between waters, it is from bait store to lake, and the big difference is they can control the bait stores, as to where and how they get their bait fish.
 
hobiecat said:
Looks to me like you can use them below 7000 feet on the eastern slope...

Just don't stock the water by releasing them when you're done fishing..And make sure you're within possesion limits..
the dow office response agreed that they could be used where legal, but pointed to the reg that in a single complete sentance says you can not move fish between waters.

i am going to send another email to this bob tompson and see if he can be more specific rather then just quoteing a reg we all have already read.
 
i will include that in the question,
thanks
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top