Colorado Fisherman Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,820 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just recently changed to braided line - nothing too heavy

Spiderwire low vis 15lb test

My question is - is it necessary to rig a flouro leader on braided line?

I've been tying on about 20inches of flouro to the end of the braid with a surgeon's knot - and haven't had any problems yet

But does it even matter? Seems like one extra point of failure by using the leader. Thoughts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,275 Posts
Depends on presentation. Fast moving bait or in heavy cover its not needed, but a slower retrieve in clear open water I would use the flouro.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,897 Posts
Sometimes I do use a leader, sometimes I don't. Personally at night I do not use one. For top water lures I usually would not use a leader. Sometimes with faster presentations I don't use one {cranks ex.}. When using finesse type presentations I normally tie on a leader. I use a uni-to-uni splice as a knot for leader into braid unless I'm using a hard leader for toothy fish. Then If I'm using a heavy fluoro I tie in w/ an albright. Anyway I've heard a lot of different opinions about the use of leaders. If I was using braid and getting follows but not bites I'd tie on a leader. In real clear water I go with a leader, or for sketchy highly pressured fish I'd probably put one on. If you're just starting out using the braid be careful about what kind of knot you use because some that will work in fluoro or mono will not work in braided line.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,820 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
JWurgaft said:
Sometimes I do use a leader, sometimes I don't. Personally at night I do not use one. For top water lures I usually would not use a leader. Sometimes with faster presentations I don't use one {cranks ex.}. When using finesse type presentations I normally tie on a leader. I use a uni-to-uni splice as a knot for leader into braid unless I'm using a hard leader for toothy fish. Then If I'm using a heavy fluoro I tie in w/ an albright. Anyway I've heard a lot of different opinions about the use of leaders. If I was using braid and getting follows but not bites I'd tie on a leader. In real clear water I go with a leader, or for sketchy highly pressured fish I'd probably put one on. If you're just starting out using the braid be careful about what kind of knot you use because some that will work in fluoro or mono will not work in braided line.
Good information - thanks...

The surgeon's has held up to multiple fish and a couple snags so far - that seems to work from braid to flouro

If I used a stardard clinch or improved clinch tying the braid straight to the lure, that should be fine, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,877 Posts
Wheezy, I always, always use a fluro leader. First off, braid floats so the sinking fluro gets your line down-real important IMO when your throwing jerks, cranks, etc.

If anything, I would go with more than a 20" leader, I usually tie on a leader thats 5-6 ft, and tie on a new one when it gets down to 3 ft.

With a fluro leader that short, you don't lose any sensitivity. I've gotten to where I can't fish with straight mono or fluro, the stretch seems like I'm fishing with a rubber band.

Finally, I use a uni to uni knot to tie on the fluro-again IMO I get less breakoffs with this than any other fluro to braid knot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,755 Posts
Weezy said:
If I used a stardard clinch or improved clinch tying the braid straight to the lure, that should be fine, right?
No, no, a thousand times no. You may have noticed that the braid has kind of a slick, greasy feel to it, especially when wet. A clinch knot or one of its variations is not safe for braid. The knot will not grab properly and will slowly slide and unwrap itself. Usually at the worst possible time. Clinch knots are NOT recommended for braid, not by any of the line manufacturers. They're not too hot for fluoro, either.

Use a palomar knot to tie on your terminal tackle. It will hold in braid where other ordinary knots won't. With a little practice at home, you can learn to tie a palomar knot very easily, and it will never pull out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,820 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
kirbydog said:
Wheezy, I always, always use a fluro leader. First off, braid floats so the sinking fluro gets your line down-real important IMO when your throwing jerks, cranks, etc.

If anything, I would go with more than a 20" leader, I usually tie on a leader thats 5-6 ft, and tie on a new one when it gets down to 3 ft.

With a fluro leader that short, you don't lose any sensitivity. I've gotten to where I can't fish with straight mono or fluro, the stretch seems like I'm fishing with a rubber band.

Finally, I use a uni to uni knot to tie on the fluro-again IMO I get less breakoffs with this than any other fluro to braid knot.
Good to know - I've noticed it's much firmer than flouro - especially when twitching or jerking baits.

It was my understanding that the surgeon's knot was best for different diameter lines

However the double uni was better for similar diameter lines?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,820 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Walking Eagle said:
Weezy said:
If I used a stardard clinch or improved clinch tying the braid straight to the lure, that should be fine, right?
No, no, a thousand times no. You may have noticed that the braid has kind of a slick, greasy feel to it, especially when wet. A clinch knot or one of its variations is not safe for braid. The knot will not grab properly and will slowly slide and unwrap itself. Usually at the worst possible time. Clinch knots are NOT recommended for braid, not by any of the line manufacturers. They're not too hot for fluoro, either.

Use a palomar knot to tie on your terminal tackle. It will hold in braid where other ordinary knots won't. With a little practice at home, you can learn to tie a palomar knot very easily, and it will never pull out.
I've noticed the softer/oily feel to the line - I appreciate the input on the palomar knot. So far I haven't ran into a knot tied directly to terminal tackle. Only fished with the flouro leader thus far - but I will have to keep that in mind
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,897 Posts
X2, on what Walking Eagle said...the polamar is solid but if you're tying into a long bait like a jerkbait making the long loop and getting it past all the trebles can be a pain...I use a uni into the hardware in that case. Either of those knots are solid for braid. As far as into a leader I've never used the surgeons..I always use a uni-to-uni splice unless the lines are drastically different in size, like 20# braid into 50# fluoro which I sometimes use for northerns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
526 Posts
I agree with JWur and W.E.; skip the clinch knot in favor of a palomar or single uni for terminal connections. Either the surgeons or double uni will work fine for the line to line connection regardless of diameters. Lastly, we keep leaders to 24" or less (down to about 8" in some cases, 12'-16" average) at all times unless were fishing vertically. The knot passing through the tip guide will impede casting accuracy (I'm a big stickler for accuracy!) and distance, and its hard on both the knot and guide insert. Most importantly, in my experience, longer leaders don't lead to more fish...

About the only times we don't use the leader is fishing very heavy cover or stained water with single hooked lures. The leader will help prevent lure fouling during the cast with multi-trebled lures. We'll use mono leaders for topwaters; fluoro for all else. CL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
I always use a leader on braid and had been using a uni to uni but recently started using the albright special and really like it so far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,820 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Fishful Thinker said:
I agree with JWur and W.E.; skip the clinch knot in favor of a palomar or single uni for terminal connections. Either the surgeons or double uni will work fine for the line to line connection regardless of diameters. Lastly, we keep leaders to 24" or less (down to about 8" in some cases, 12'-16" average) at all times unless were fishing vertically. The knot passing through the tip guide will impede casting accuracy (I'm a big stickler for accuracy!) and distance, and its hard on both the knot and guide insert. Most importantly, in my experience, longer leaders don't lead to more fish...

About the only times we don't use the leader is fishing very heavy cover or stained water with single hooked lures. The leader will help prevent lure fouling during the cast with multi-trebled lures. We'll use mono leaders for topwaters; fluoro for all else. CL
Good information - thanks Chad, I noticed that actually when I first tied on my leader, that the knot would often pass through the tip eye give it a little pull when casting by catching. Now that I've tied on a cut off a few lures, the leader is down to about 10-12 inches and easier to cast it out there.

Regarding the palamor knot - would you still tie that over a trilene knot (some people define that as the improved clinch, where you go through the eye twice, twist 5-7 times, and back through the double loop)?

The loop does seem to be a hassle on the larger lures avoiding all the trebles with the palamor.

Thanks for the input
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
I generally use about a 6-10 ft flouro leader on all of my braid & retie once it gets down to less than 3-4 feet. I connect then using a J-Knot then coat the knot with Sally Hansen's Hard as Nails. Once it dries I trim the tag ends as close to the knot as possible, then recoat with SHHAN. The polish seems to strengthen the knot and to smooth it out. I can't even feel the knot as it passes through my guides.
I will admit the length of flouro may be more a confidence thing, but it works for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,402 Posts
JWurgaft said:
Sometimes I do use a leader, sometimes I don't. Personally at night I do not use one. For top water lures I usually would not use a leader. Sometimes with faster presentations I don't use one {cranks ex.}. When using finesse type presentations I normally tie on a leader. I use a uni-to-uni splice as a knot for leader into braid unless I'm using a hard leader for toothy fish. Then If I'm using a heavy fluoro I tie in w/ an albright. Anyway I've heard a lot of different opinions about the use of leaders. If I was using braid and getting follows but not bites I'd tie on a leader. In real clear water I go with a leader, or for sketchy highly pressured fish I'd probably put one on. If you're just starting out using the braid be careful about what kind of knot you use because some that will work in fluoro or mono will not work in braided line.
X2..well stated! The only question I have is: why do you use braid with a Crankbait (unless the obvious line diameter difference)?

D.J.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,554 Posts
When using plastics or any other slow presentation, I always use a flouro leader or just flouro itself. Aside from topwater, I don't find that I prefer braid for any application over straight flouro or hybrid line.

A double uni is the knot I tie when attaching a leader and it hasn't failed me yet. Single uni to the bait itself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,716 Posts
Why I use braid

With 15 lb braid, one can fish for just about any Colorado fish just by switching to a different leader.
Braid doesn't go weak and brittle like mono after a year of so. By using a leader you can keep the reel spooled up longer before it gets too short to cast with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,002 Posts
I favor braid when:

I'm fishing from shore, for the extra casting diastance, feel and hook setting power at long distance. I agree that at night a fluoro leader is a waste, regardless the bait.

Fishing cover (Not so much in this state), flippin' into any heavy cover. No fluoro leader.

From shore with slower presentations(tubes, jerkbaits, jigs), during the day in clear water. Fluoro leader.

I always use the double uni-knot for my leader knot, and always use a leader from 3-6', depending on clarity and speed of retrieve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,804 Posts
Braid for jerkbaits...W/fluoro leader in clear water. Love braid for the lack of stretch. Solid hooksets, even when the bait is way out.

Copolymer for pretty much everything else. Gamma, P-Line CXX, and by way of recommendation (never used it) Yo-Zuri Hybrid. My dad loves it. He also loves the Suffix Hybrid.

I know some people prefer Fluoro for bottom presentations (it sinks), but I haven't noticed a substantial difference of Fluoro over Copolymer. Copolymer is stronger, more abrasion resistant than Fluoro, IMO.

I don't bother with mono anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
516 Posts
Better action on a smaller diameter line.....That's why I'd use it- I don't have a ton of experience with braid, but the only disadvantage I've found is freezing temps- it freezes up far worse than mono or a co-polymer. Lots of good info here, W.E. & Kirbydog are right on the money, palomar knots & back-to-back uni knots work for me. By the way, you should absolutely use a flour leader with braid unless you are night fishing, fishing for cats, or muddy water- it really makes a difference.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top