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The NY Times reports today that the 700 billion dollar bail out of banks, insurance companies and auto makers looks like it will cost tax payers nothing. Sounds like a 70 Billion dollar payback from AIG is a part of this, as well as the dough that the car companies already paid back. It appears one of the main reasons the full payback is likely is because much of the money loaned was insured with stock which has increased in value.

I've got news folks, It's working. It's slow, there are some casualties, but the big picture may be looking better. I have read several articles predicting a bull market is just around the corner, and by definition, the recession is over. Jobs are up slightly, and unemployment is going down (finally).

It seems to me that the first two years of Obama's presidency is being defined by borrowing, to get things moving and get the big guns out of trouble. Then payback of the money which indicates the companies that were in trouble have fixed their problems. If the market moves in the direction that is predicted, you can bet right before the next election our country will be peaking again.

I ams sure the haters will go on their usual tirades... But being the optimist I am, I like to see the progress. I hope the predictions are right. It is great to know that all the money that everyone insisted was coming out of our pockets will be paid back. I also like the fact that when the Bush's tax cuts were set to expire, all but those making over 250k were extended... I dig that.

I am headed fishing for four days without a computer so I'll let you guys just rip this apart and go to blows without me. It is just real nice to have these thoughts in my head while enjoying the last camping trip of the year.

Peace!!!!!!!!!!! O0
 

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Hey bud, I 've got one of those islands out at 11 Mile for sale cheap!!! Nice place for a cabin!!! 8) You could always get your money back on the investment!!! ;D
 

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well, Senator Obama certainly did vote for the 700 billion Tarp, which President Bush signed.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
fischer said:
well, Senator Obama certainly did vote for the 700 billion Tarp, which President Bush signed.
So your agreeing...it's working right?
 

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Nice message. Nothing like leaving something to chew on for us poor suckers who aren't able to go fishing all weekend. Have fun!
 

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Although I do not agree with the TARP package, no one can deny that the immediate influx of capital from the Federal Reserve did put the large Banks/Insurance companies free fall to a halt. There are three little problems with it though, ones that were failed to be mentioned here. One: every "toxic asset" that was the problem in the first place just switched hands with the Federal Reserve (so in other words, they still exist, just not by the Banks and Insurance companies). Two: even though it has, or will be, payed back in full (with interest); instead of paying down the deficit and recoup the future money that tax payers would have to pay (unless the Fed "quantitative eases" it away: which means everyone will be on the hook because our dollar value will take a sharp decline [i.e. the "inflation tax"]), it was spent by Congress (this is one of the primary reasons the deficit, along with the Stimulus Package and a whole ton of other spending, is where it is today...which opens up a whole other set of complex issues). And three: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are still massively in the hole, they could have been liquidated by dissolving up the companies and selling the assets on the free market, they were not (does anyone think that the exact thing that happened to them in the first place is not going to happen again? Get real). Take it or leave it..you might agree with the TARP or not, but to not look at the long term effects of something like it--as well as all the other spending/the recession in general--is just naive.

D.J.
 

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djfisherman2 said:
Although I do not agree with the TARP package, no one can deny that the immediate influx of capital from the Federal Reserve did put the large Banks/Insurance companies free fall to a halt. There are three little problems with it though, ones that were failed to be mentioned here. One: every "toxic asset" that was the problem in the first place just switched hands with the Federal Reserve (so in other words, they still exist, just not by the Banks and Insurance companies). Two: even though it has, or will be, payed back in full (with interest); instead of paying down the deficit and recoup the future money that tax payers would have to pay (unless the Fed "quantitative eases" it away: which means everyone will be on the hook because our dollar value will take a sharp decline [i.e. the "inflation tax"]), it was spent by Congress (this is one of the primary reasons the deficit, along with the Stimulus Package and a whole ton of other spending, is where it is today...which opens up a whole other set of complex issues). And three: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are still massively in the hole, they could have been liquidated by dissolving up the companies and selling the assets on the free market, they were not (does anyone think that the exact thing that happened to them in the first place is not going to happen again? Get real). Take it or leave it..you might agree with the TARP or not, but to not look at the long term effects of something like it--as well as all the other spending/the recession in general--is just naive.

D.J.

DJ, maybe you missed articles this week, the Federal Reserve is making the biggest profits it has ever made. Over 75 billion now forecast for this year, vs 47ish billion last year. All the profit goes to the Fed. Get this, the profit is being made, mostly, from "toxic assets".

The other notions you seem to believe, are, how to put this, well a little mixed up. Lots of words, not much common sense.
 

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TAL0362 said:
djfisherman2 said:
Although I do not agree with the TARP package, no one can deny that the immediate influx of capital from the Federal Reserve did put the large Banks/Insurance companies free fall to a halt. There are three little problems with it though, ones that were failed to be mentioned here. One: every "toxic asset" that was the problem in the first place just switched hands with the Federal Reserve (so in other words, they still exist, just not by the Banks and Insurance companies). Two: even though it has, or will be, payed back in full (with interest); instead of paying down the deficit and recoup the future money that tax payers would have to pay (unless the Fed "quantitative eases" it away: which means everyone will be on the hook because our dollar value will take a sharp decline [i.e. the "inflation tax"]), it was spent by Congress (this is one of the primary reasons the deficit, along with the Stimulus Package and a whole ton of other spending, is where it is today...which opens up a whole other set of complex issues). And three: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are still massively in the hole, they could have been liquidated by dissolving up the companies and selling the assets on the free market, they were not (does anyone think that the exact thing that happened to them in the first place is not going to happen again? Get real). Take it or leave it..you might agree with the TARP or not, but to not look at the long term effects of something like it--as well as all the other spending/the recession in general--is just naive.

D.J.

DJ, maybe you missed articles this week, the Federal Reserve is making the biggest profits it has ever made. Over 75 billion now forecast for this year, vs 47ish billion last year. All the profit goes to the Fed. Get this, the profit is being made, mostly, from "toxic assets".
So? And your point is...

D.J.
 

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Inflation is sucking your mind

The dollar has lost about 11% in the past four months. This means it will only buy 89 cents worth of goods that it did four months ago.
Now stocks represent the worth of a companies assets and future value to investors.
So investors are buying stock instead of savings dollars. And the stock is costing more compared to the same inflated dollar. It just takes more dollars to buy the same share of stock.
The government produced many dollars and bought its debt back with funny money.
Another reason Gold and Silver cost more dollars per ounce. The Gold you could have bought in 2002 for $300.00 per ounce or the silver for $6.25 is now costing you over $1300 and $22 per ounce.
If your old enough to recall when 10K per year was a good living wage. Now 50K is just able to pay all the bills.
Or to keep it simple compare the cost of Power bait over the past ten years. The government keeps making dollars out of thin air and the cost of real goods and assets goes up.
Compare the cost of a haircut over the last ten/fifteen years. Heads, hair all the same. Why the increase of price? Cheap dollars produced to stimulate the economy and rip off anyone unfortunate enough to trust in saving dollars.
 

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Re: Inflation is sucking your mind

earplug said:
The dollar has lost about 11% in the past four months. This means it will only buy 89 cents worth of goods that it did four months ago.
Now stocks represent the worth of a companies assets and future value to investors.
So investors are buying stock instead of savings dollars. And the stock is costing more compared to the same inflated dollar. It just takes more dollars to buy the same share of stock.
The government produced many dollars and bought its debt back with funny money.
Another reason Gold and Silver cost more dollars per ounce. The Gold you could have bought in 2002 for $300.00 per ounce or the silver for $6.25 is now costing you over $1300 and $22 per ounce.
If your old enough to recall when 10K per year was a good living wage. Now 50K is just able to pay all the bills.
Or to keep it simple compare the cost of Power bait over the past ten years. The government keeps making dollars out of thin air and the cost of real goods and assets goes up.
Compare the cost of a haircut over the last ten/fifteen years. Heads, hair all the same. Why the increase of price? Cheap dollars produced to stimulate the economy and rip off anyone unfortunate enough to trust in saving dollars.
So that means it's all working...right? ::) :D 8)
 

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Like the one next door. No sign, vacant and empty for the past two years.
The Obama Working plan in Colorado Springs must mean commercial property with a sign that reads available is a good sign. And CS has lots of federal money from the defense department boosting are economy.
Other places must really suck.
If commercial real estate vacancy is about 13% how can the government figures for unemployment be less then 10%? People ran business without anyone working inside?
 

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Oyey said:
The NY Times reports today that the 700 billion dollar bail out of banks, insurance companies and auto makers looks like it will cost tax payers nothing. Sounds like a 70 Billion dollar payback from AIG is a part of this, as well as the dough that the car companies already paid back. It appears one of the main reasons the full payback is likely is because much of the money loaned was insured with stock which has increased in value.

I've got news folks, It's working. It's slow, there are some casualties, but the big picture may be looking better. I have read several articles predicting a bull market is just around the corner, and by definition, the recession is over. Jobs are up slightly, and unemployment is going down (finally).

It seems to me that the first two years of Obama's presidency is being defined by borrowing, to get things moving and get the big guns out of trouble. Then payback of the money which indicates the companies that were in trouble have fixed their problems. If the market moves in the direction that is predicted, you can bet right before the next election our country will be peaking again.

I ams sure the haters will go on their usual tirades... But being the optimist I am, I like to see the progress. I hope the predictions are right. It is great to know that all the money that everyone insisted was coming out of our pockets will be paid back. I also like the fact that when the Bush's tax cuts were set to expire, all but those making over 250k were extended... I dig that.

I am headed fishing for four days without a computer so I'll let you guys just rip this apart and go to blows without me. It is just real nice to have these thoughts in my head while enjoying the last camping trip of the year.

Peace!!!!!!!!!!! O0
i don't understand the hatred from the left for those making more than 250k... (which isn't a heck of a lot in todays dollars) many of those are small business owners who happen to be the backbone of our economy. the house minority leader, john boehner, claims to have BI-PARTISAN support to extend the tax cuts for ALL americans, but pelost chose to adjourn(?) congress without allowing it to come up for a vote. as long as there is such uncertainty in the business sector, i don't see anything changing for the better... until november when we get the chance to vote all of these power hungry crooks out of office,,, until then, i wouldn't hold my breath for others sharing your "optimism".
 

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Re: Inflation is sucking your mind

earplug said:
Another reason Gold and Silver cost more dollars per ounce. The Gold you could have bought in 2002 for $300.00 per ounce or the silver for $6.25 is now costing you over $1300 and $22 per ounce.
Damn I guess my dad did know what he was doing when he bought all that gold! :eek: :eek: :eek: Sweet!
 

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There is a recovery in process and get used to the open commercial space, its a virtual world now. I had typed a much longer version but decided to remove the post as I felt it revealed to much. Thing are turning around though, expect unemployment to drop in 2011. But then again indicators showed we were heading to recession going back to 2006 and remind me what was done to advert the crisis??? Oh yeah nothing.

But as an example were about 1/3 bigger as a company than we were in 2008 and yet our parking lot is half as full as it was then... The company that is one floor above us just hired a lot of people (it made the news) and yet still no mores cars in the parking lot. Actual offices are a thing of the past people, I have people that work "at" my office from 10 different states that I can think of right off the top of my head. We employ a lot of people that have a nice 25 foot or less "comute".

Simple fact of the matter is computers do cost jobs and the jobs that they do provide don't come close to the amount they take away.

Example at my old company I put 20k miles on my car in 2005. This last year I put 4k on my car. Don't think that is helping out on repairs, and replacing tires and other parts? We went from a two car family to a one car family. But since I don't need it someone is out of work now. I meet face to face all of the time with people in differrent states and yet I never travel? No effect on airlines, hotels, restaurants? Combine that with outsourcing out of the nation and you have the real issue for unemployment. Heck I can now work on their computer while in my own home. Just think of the amount of things I no longer need. Since I don't need it I don't buy it and someone else is out of a job.

The economy and unemployment aren't hand in hand like they once were. (I admit that sounds completely idiotic at first glance) I believe recovery will happen but the unemployment will not be as quick to recover until truly new jobs are created. The last time I checked it wasnt the job of the president to go out and find a new product that everyone has to have and thereby create new jobs, I thought that was the what capitalism did it inspired Americans. It will happen & I have faith, but this is going to take some time and we are heading in the right direction, but you can't blame successful businesses for being frugal.
 
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