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Discussion Starter #1
On the out door show on 950 the fan last saturday terry had a guest from dow and a caller who is a guide on granby who seemed to be in agreement that the way to make lake trout bigger is to increase limits on them in order to increase koke populations.


Talo I went to your dow link about this earlier this year, Am I wrong or does it not say that lake trout 35 inches and bigger mostly eat trout.

I have noticed at rampart lakers do not grow in the numbers that they grow at grand lake-granby
is this because of a lac of kokes. thear are plenty of 8 inch trout in rampart.

Hopefully DOW employies are being honest when they brodcast around the state if not we should all know that it is our responcibility to make them tell the truth.

If it does turn out to be a lie why did berny keefe not discredit it. If anyone knows he would know right?

ANY EVIDENCE TRUE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY OF DOW REPS OPINION LAST SATURDAY? ANYONE?
 

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At Rampart there are one heck of alot of undersized lakers so they have removed the minimum length in an effort to reduce their numbers and increase size. It doesn't seem to have worked yet but it may be too early to tell.

Under 18 or 20", I imagine the lakers eat exactly what the trout do and this is a very infertile lake so theres not alot to eat . The larger lakers, of course, dine on the stockers . You hear of somone catching a big one every once in awhile but not too often. The lakers I catch here are all 14-18" and pretty skinny, the browns are about the same length and a little fatter.

A good numbers lake.
 

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Mr Plow,

As I recall, the article I found did say the big lakers were eating stocked rainbow especially in the absence of Kokanee, -big time-, they were eating even more fish than were harvested by fisherman. Contrary to what others may believe, I think the Dow is trying to manage our fisheries. It seems to me they make mistakes, admit it, they learn and they try something new. This fishery management concept has been around for only a very short time - like 40 or 50 years max, (my age and nearly the age of some big lakers), its relatively new, heck Lewis and Clark came across the country only a little over 200 years ago. When I think in terms of Lewis and Clark and realize I have seen over 20% of those years, and I don't feel that old, I realize what I "know" is really dynamic and new.

Terre
 

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TAL0362 said:
Contrary to what others may believe, I think the Dow is trying to manage our fisheries. It seems to me they make mistakes, admit it, they learn and they try something new.
May I offer an alternative opinion. The DOW could not manage a wet dream. If any of their people were really good at anything, they would not have to take a low-paying government job.

- The crabby old curmudgeon
 

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Its great to find a kindred spirit on the site. There is a famous saying....."I'm from the government and I'm here to help you". Thru the years, alot of people have gotten screwed after hearing that.

I think its good to have a healthy suspicion of anyone who says they are making things better for you.
 

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i am with you Walking eagle!!
the DOW makes me sick,they think they are trying to help and really dont.but i guess without em our fisheries would really be screwed.but i cant help but think in some cases they do more harm than good.
the talk about taking pike away from us kills me,and now our mackinaws.why just cause they eat TROUT and KOKES.thats the friggin cycle of life under the lake surface.just the other day i was talking to a reliable source and they informed me of wanting to get the macks out of granby to make a KOKE lake because they thrive there!!well apperently so do the friggin macks,but the dow doesnt care,they want it their way,not ours.so dont believe everything they tell you in a public forum cause they really have their own agenda,trust me.its plain BS and i really am starting to hate em.i would much rather chase a big mean predatory fish than little KOKES,but i can see the future of colorado now,trout and kokes.maybe some grayling.gees im really excited bout icefishing here in ten years.
 

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PIKER said:
i am with you Walking eagle!!
the DOW makes me sick,they think they are trying to help and really dont.but i guess without em our fisheries would really be screwed.but i cant help but think in some cases they do more harm than good.
the talk about taking pike away from us kills me,and now our mackinaws.why just cause they eat TROUT and KOKES.thats the friggin cycle of life under the lake surface.just the other day i was talking to a reliable source and they informed me of wanting to get the macks out of granby to make a KOKE lake because they thrive there!!well apperently so do the friggin macks,but the dow doesnt care,they want it their way,not ours.so dont believe everything they tell you in a public forum cause they really have their own agenda,trust me.its plain BS and i really am starting to hate em.i would much rather chase a big mean predatory fish than little KOKES,but i can see the future of colorado now,trout and kokes.maybe some grayling.gees im really excited bout icefishing here in ten years.
Well without the CDOW there wouldnt be any fishable lakes. Also, like all things they will work in cycles... In so many years new people will be in new positions at the CDOW and they will have their own agendas which may be the same as the ones there now or just the opposite. And like wise the fish will also go in cycles, it will take some time for species to reach trophy size and then their offspring or stock fingerlings will eventually reach the same size. Not everyone who fishes keeps everything or harvests everything there is a unhappy medium.

All you can do is get involved, voice your opinion. This forum asked if you guys wanted to form a group (like TU, or Musky Inc) to bring your issues infront of the DOW. Out of all the ranters and ravers something like 3 people stepped upto the plate.
 

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Walking Eagle said:
TAL0362 said:
Contrary to what others may believe, I think the Dow is trying to manage our fisheries.  It seems to me they make mistakes, admit it, they learn and they try something new.
May I offer an alternative opinion. The DOW could not manage a wet dream. If any of their people were really good at anything, they would not have to take a low-paying government job.

- The crabby old curmudgeon
Sam Bush puts Bill Monroe to shame.  You know what they say about opinions and....we all have them.

Personally, I think the DOW has done a damn fine job considering what they have to work with.  Compared to 20 years ago how many millions of people have moved into Colorado?   How many of those people fish and hunt?  It has been 10 years since the DOW raised their fishing licenses, finally this year they get an increase, but it is a pittance compared to what they asked for.  Are we all fools enough to think that the DOW's expenses stayed the same over the last 10 years?  I am sure many of those who complain about the DOW are the smae ones who complained about the fee increase.

People who get into fish and wildlife management do not get into it for the $$$, they get into this field because they love fish and wildlife.  They are hunters and fishermen just like the users of this forum.  The government just happens to be the largest employer, and fortunately/unfortunately (depending on what side of the fence you sit on) the responsible steward for our natural resources. 
 

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hmmm... where's ice thought he would have chimed in on this?
 

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roadkill said:
hmmm... where's ice thought he would have chimed in on this?
I think he gets tired of repeating himself. :p
 

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Don't worry I wouldn't miss this for the world, :D

I agree with those that the CDOW cannot manage fish. Saying they want to create a better trophy fishery is by and large a lie to get support for their unwanted cause.

Granby is overpopulated with lakers, that much is true. But to allow four fish to be kept with no size limit again defies logic. Whatever big fish that are left in there, and they do exist in this lake, should be protected and released.

A much better idea would be to make the bag limit for lake trout 8 mackinaws, but only one mackinaw over 22" allowed to be kept, or a slot limit so all macks from 22 - 36" must be released and only one laker above 36" allowed to be kept.

Clackaram, the CDOW DOES NOT do a good job in this state and to say they are not in it for the money is pretty naiive in my mind.

Bottom line is this. Its easy to see they aren't for creating a trophy mack fishery here. The reason: "If they were serious about a trophy fishery, they would have never removed the slot limit, and they would protect big blue mesa lakers."

The only solution is to recall all politicians who support those who want our pike and macks gone.
 

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ePic-You stated that without the CDOW there wouldn't be any fishable lakes. I don't know what you mean. Are you talking about the trout stocking they do.

One of the things I think they should do RIGHT NOW is stop stocking trout in lakes where they don't belong. Alot of the lakes along the front range and especially the eastern plains would be far better off if they stopped putting trout in and started to manage them with warmwater species-bass, crappie, catfish. All of these species will reproduce. The stocker trout are mostly gone in 2 weeks at these lakes or don't make it thru the summer heat. That IMO is a huge waste of time and money.
 

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kirbydog said:
ePic-You stated that without the CDOW there wouldn't be any fishable lakes.  I don't know what you mean.  Are you talking about the trout stocking they do.

One of the things I think they should do RIGHT NOW is stop stocking trout in lakes where they don't belong.  Alot of the lakes along the front range and especially the eastern plains would be far better off if they stopped putting trout in and started to manage them with warmwater species-bass, crappie, catfish.  All of these species will reproduce.  The stocker trout are mostly gone in 2 weeks at these lakes or don't make it thru the summer heat.  That IMO is a huge waste of time and money. 
I'm with you kirby. They just dump trout where they don't belong and cannot even grow.
For a funny story, they once tried to plant trout in connected lakes around my home. Well, the trout were all floating dead the next day. And guess what? They didn't even bother to find out, and THEY STOCKED IT AGAIN THE NEXT YEAR.
They did the exact thing at Rio Blanco Lake. The trout floated to the surface within a few days, and they tried it again next year, same time, same place.
And trout are downright damaging to gamefish at times. They are more aggressive and they gobble up countless fry of hatched bass, walleye ect. Then they compete for space and chase most other gamefish of similar or slightly larger size away. They flat out will outcompete basically any fish but pike or panfish.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Is saying it wont work at granby enough evidence though. Any hard evidence to refute what dow is trying to do? Why would a guide who stakes his livelyhood on big fish at granby support it?

There has got to be some evidence to support a slot limit making for better trophy fishing. If not in colorado than in canada right. If we are to assume that the dow is wrong on this, than we need to have evidence to support that conclusion. I happen to think that evidence does exist. We need to find it and bring it infront of the people who count. Otherwise our words are empty, or we are wrong.


Also just because DOW is a part of the government does not mean their people are incompitent or out wright trying to piss you and me off. Some of them may have different goals than me or you but I believe in the end their goal as a organization is to make the customer happy, the customer being a person who pays for a colorado fishing license.

IMO
 

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when you talk about how many people hunt and fish in colorado?,  i thought they raised the prices because sales of both are down??? thats what i read anyway.i think that most people that keep too many fish and the wrong size of fish and illegal tactics used to catch the fish, most probably don't care if they have a license or not..
 

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kirbydog said:
ePic-You stated that without the CDOW there wouldn't be any fishable lakes. I don't know what you mean. Are you talking about the trout stocking they do.

One of the things I think they should do RIGHT NOW is stop stocking trout in lakes where they don't belong. Alot of the lakes along the front range and especially the eastern plains would be far better off if they stopped putting trout in and started to manage them with warmwater species-bass, crappie, catfish. All of these species will reproduce. The stocker trout are mostly gone in 2 weeks at these lakes or don't make it thru the summer heat. That IMO is a huge waste of time and money.
No personally I hate catching stocker trout. I mean if we had no one to manage the lakes we have and to introduce species that weren't here originally like the CDOW has done. Everyone would take what they want when they wanted, how they wanted, and what ever. Just because you wouldnt do something one way doesnt mean Joe Bob down the road wouldnt to. YOu'd have people with 50 Jug lines or trout lines out, people keeping spawning (insert fish here) and thus totally killing off all kinds of forage and species.
The CDOW is a necessary evil, you may not like them but there has to be someone doing it and no matter what you do you cant please everyone all of the time.
 

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As far as the Trout stocking program, this generates money so we can get the species that arent native to Colorado, it suppots alot of the programs the DOW does, and it gives thousands of people something to catch when they want to get away and fish.
 

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One of the things I think they should do RIGHT NOW is stop stocking trout in lakes where they don't belong.

Not to take it out of context but if you want to get down to it, 90% of the species stocked in Colorado don't belong naturally, especially lake, rainbow and brown trout.  Most of the warmwater fish wouldn't be here without the reservoirs we created and the DOW stocked.  It seems to me and this is just my opinion that we, as fisherman, start getting better and start lookng for bigger, different fish that we've never caught.  I can take my g-friend to any area lake with stockers, sit and catch them all day, and she's amazed and highly entertained.  But for me and probably for Ice, this gets old pretty quick.  But, for the majority of the people whose funds support the DOW, that's what's needed to keep them coming back, catchable (albeit stupid and not particularly tasty) fish.  Those are what pay the bills and allow the DOW to stock high-cost species like tigers, pike, and lakers.  Noone's taking little Jimmy down to Quincy with his Zebco to cast 200 times with a stickbait to maybe, perhaps, could be catch a muskie.  He's gonna go down there and cath 'bows until he doesn't want to.  It's fun and it's what fishing should be and it keeps Jimmy fishing until he's old enough to spend $$$ to go after sexier things like the muskies and the lakers.  Okay, I'm rambling.  Believe me, noone with a government job is doing it for the money.
 

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i got an idea protest don,t buy a lic. i bet that will get their att. if a bunch of people who they allready counted on didn't buuy a lic. next year i bet that would throw them off i can bet that the look at the #'s and couunt the eggs before they hatch. well this ain't going to happen but remember we fund them they might get grants from feds but most comes from us. If your mad and the CDOW wont listen there is something called senetors and congressman sometimes drastic times call for drastic matters. i really dont have a opion on the CDOW as i haven't researched info yet so it would just be ignorant for me to voice it.
 
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