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The almighty lake trout will prevail, and the bigger ones will be shown to be the heroes of the fishery. With the absence of rainbows and kokanne, they will even more so hammer the hell out of the suckers, and cannibalize the over population of their own young. Snaggers wont be piled up at the inlet in the fall, but at $20 bucks a pop, snagging pike might get popular.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It would be worth it to catch 50 hammer handles at Spinney ice them and drive them to Green mountain!...I kid...
 

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The almighty lake trout will prevail, and the bigger ones will be shown to be the heroes of the fishery. With the absence of rainbows and kokanne, they will even more so hammer the hell out of the suckers, and cannibalize the over population of their own young. Snaggers wont be piled up at the inlet in the fall, but at $20 bucks a pop, snagging pike might get popular.
Yes they will prevail but now that the large fish are shown to be at an all time high body to weight ratio on his graph without any stocked fish they will surely lose weight over time.


Quote from Ewert.
A couple messages that I get on a regular basis from the lake trout angling community are an almost universal lack of support for kokanee in Colorado, and and the assertion that we can have perfectly good trophy lake trout fisheries based on a sucker prey base alone. These two positions are totally misguided - and quite possibly tragic for the future of trophy lakers in this state - but we've seen over and over again that it doesn't matter how many times we try to communicate this. Here is our golden opportunity to test these theories.


At least this time he is letting us know about the test rather than doing it at Granby with 3 years of Rainbow shortages without anyone knowing, then blaming it all on budget cuts when I discovered what was going on.

Whats misguided is this whole experiment along with the assumption that there is almost universal anti support among Lake trout Anglers for Kokanee.

As an avid Lake Trout and Kokanee angler I spent a huge amount of time, effort and equipment trying to maintain Kokanee in the state. At times more than the managers themselves.
When the Kokanee crashed at Lake Granby in 99 and we were losing our Kokanee egg supplies the Dow was taking aim at the Lake Trout. It took huge effort to convince the biologists to start taking eggs from Williams Fork and other smaller Reservoirs.

Yes Large Lake Trout will survive without Kokanee or Rainbows as Fordo says they will as they already do eat Suckers and smaller Lakers but they will Not do as well as they would with the added benefits of Kokanee and Rainbows.
Without stocked fish the Large Lakers will forage even more on smaller Lakers reducing there populations. We may see a small downturn of smaller lakers at Green mtn due to this but due to the 8 fish open limit without any protection on larger fish there I doubt there are enough large lakers to make much of a difference.
Of course the large Lakers at Granby have a general lower weight to length ratio as other areas, Granby is not a productive Reservoir and Green mtn is.

Not stocking any Rainbows at Green mtn. due to Pike and Gill lice will only be detrimental to the many Anglers that fish there.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The almighty lake trout will prevail, and the bigger ones will be shown to be the heroes of the fishery. With the absence of rainbows and kokanne, they will even more so hammer the hell out of the suckers, and cannibalize the over population of their own young. Snaggers wont be piled up at the inlet in the fall, but at $20 bucks a pop, snagging pike might get popular.
Fordo...trout and salmon have to be less work for a big laker dont you think since they are more open water freely swimming fish as compared to bottom hugging blend in suckers?
 

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The almighty lake trout will prevail, and the bigger ones will be shown to be the heroes of the fishery. With the absence of rainbows and kokanne, they will even more so hammer the hell out of the suckers, and cannibalize the over population of their own young. Snaggers wont be piled up at the inlet in the fall, but at $20 bucks a pop, snagging pike might get popular.

P.S. Zman, read his january blog, its a good read, but made me feel bad. While it was very nice to be heard, The denver post article by Willoughby was kind of a goofy article. It sounds like possibly it is the reason Willougby isn't there anymore.
 

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[Quote from Ewerts January blog].
The main reason I lost motivation with the blog is that in 2014 I held a couple of public meetings in which I was attacked and publicly crucified, and that was followed by this article in the Denver Post a year ago, which was a very thinly veiled personal attack aimed squarely at me. From my perspective, it appeared that the ultimate reward for making an effort to communicate with those that I serve was to be publicly called out as a liar on the pages of the biggest printed media outlet in this state. I've got to be honest -- that was a devastating blow to take. [end quote]

Seriously? Attacked and publicly crucified at the meetings? Fordo and I both posted results from the meetings..If either of us attacked and publicly crucified a gov. employee I doubt we would be out fishing anymore.

Really? Called out as a liar from the Denver Post because Willoughby used a goofy all fisherman are liars theme for his article?http://www.denverpost.com/outdoors/ci_27253657/too-many-mackinaw-is-bad-thing-try-getting

Wow, my E-mail to Willoughby with my comments were in response to this previous article that blames the Ravenous and Voracious Lake Trout for the Kokanee woes.
http://www.denverpost.com/willoughby/ci_27179862/granby-kokanee-egg-count-down
 

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Fordo...trout and salmon have to be less work for a big laker dont you think since they are more open water freely swimming fish as compared to bottom hugging blend in suckers?

Here is a copy of my comments on Jons blogs.

Jon, Thanks for this bog, As an avid fishernan for trophy lake trout since 1992, I promise you those lakers will adapt, I have caught many lakers at Gm that were spitting out suckers. My best strategy at GM is to locate big fish on shalow muddy flats from 10 to 30 and pck them off the bottom as they are cruising slowly to ambush suckers. On top of being sucker eaters at GM, the biggest fish I caught out of GM last year was 34 inches, and it had a 13" lake trout in its mouth. With so many young and small lakers in GM. Those big lakers will also benefit the fishery by helping control the over population of the samller lake trout.
Kokanne salmon are high in calories but those lakers have to work harder to get then by staying under the schools, and then shooting up from down below to ambush them. Out in the deep, kokanne move fast, and lakers can only get them buy chasing hard as the kokanne scurry. The large lake trout at green mountian like the shallow mud flasts were they can hang out, cruise and ambush sucker fish. The big lakers in GM will be the most beneficial fish for the fishery. Your nets will see a substantial decline in suckers, and the body condition of the large lake trout probably wont increase, and it may slightly decrease to look more like a Granby mac, but those lakers big lakers will sustain and remain. They wont die off due to lack of kokanne and rainbows. They will find away and continue to provide one of the best ice fishing opportunities for lake trout in the whole state. Randy Ford


Jon, Don't you want less suckers and less small lakers? A big laker at green mountian is a sucker, and subctchable laker eating machine. Those big lakers are the best thing the fishery has going for it and your graphs show there are not that many in there. I think it will soon be shown that a 28 to 36 inch laker is the heroe of the fishery. To me it seems so obvious that protecting the big lakers would result in less suckers, and less subcatchable lake trout. Every big laker kiled results in more suckers and more small lakers. This is something i observed after Ice fishing at green mountain 72 times during the winter of 2012/2013 while taking a sabbatical from my construction business. I caught 14 lakers in the 28 to 36 inch slot. I never saw one rainbow or kokanne tail sticking out of there jaws, but i had caught them spitting out suckers, and caught them with laker tails sticking out of their jaws. I don't see anything in your graphs that supports your statement that a slot is not needed. Thanks, Randy Ford
 

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Colorado Fisheries Biologist Jon Ewert's blog on Green Mountain...part 1 is the good news part 2 is the bad news...

Part 1

http://coloradoheadwatersfisheries.blogspot.com/2016_02_01_archive.html

In comparing GM to Granby as Jon does its important to note that you are dealing with 2 totally different aquatic environments.
Granby's under 24" fish are over 10 points heavier than GM"s similar length fish due to Mysis shrimp that GM does not have.
Although GM's over 24"ers are heavier they are much fewer.
Granby is ultimately the better lake trout fishery.
The under 24" fish comprise the largest portion of the catch at both lakes but Granbys are much healthier and better eaters.
If you want lower quality eater size fish and a much smaller chance of a large fish that will be heavier than average go to GM.
If you want better quality eater size fish and a much greater chance at a large fish that will most likely be lighter than a similar length at GM go to Granby.
 

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Colorado Fisheries Biologist Jon Ewert's blog on Green Mountain...part 1 is the good news part 2 is the bad news...


Part 2

http://coloradoheadwatersfisheries.blogspot.com/2016_03_01_archive.html
Bad news for sure, the Gill lice have decimated Kokanee populations at several reservoirs. Getting rid of the Host hopefully will eventually help the situation.
Although being natural in the environment it is still a possibility the lice will come back as fish get stressed they are more subject to getting infected.

The last paragraph of Jon's Article is very concerning.

Jon believes that universally Lake Trout anglers do not support Kokanee fisheries.

I could write a book about how wrong this is…

Most Lake Trout anglers also love to catch Kokanee.
Personally I was a Kokanee Angler long before I ever fished for Lake Trout.
My family and friends annually trolled for them in the Summer and canned them to eat.
In the Fall we catch and or Snag where its legal to smoke and use their eggs for bait

Of course we support Kokanee..

We may be tired of always hearing from the fish managers that the Kokanee's woes are the Lake Trout's fault when they know there are much greater problems facing them.
Gill lice devastating populations at GM, Williams Fork, Eleven mile and now Blue Mesa.
A natural Algae bloom and die off at Blue Mesa.
Starving Kokanee at Dillon and Granby due to Mysis depleting there source of food and leaving the water depleted of the basic nutrients they need to thrive.
None of these problems have any thing to do with Lake Trout yet they are constantly looking at ways to discredit and try to downgrade our great Lake Trout fisheries.

The proof in the pudding as Jon puts in the last sentence that we will see how Lake Trout do without stocked Rainbows or Kokanee is going to be an interesting experiment.
I'm guessing do to the basic productivity of the lake with a large biomass of Smaller Lake Trout and Suckers along with overall low populations Large Lake Trout we won't see a dramatic change.

It would be nice if instead of totally devastating the Rainbow shore fishery that at peak usage times they could stock a few Larger Rainbows that are less susceptible to predators for the benefit of the many shore anglers.
 

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The proof in the pudding as Jon puts in the last sentence that we will see how Lake Trout do without stocked Rainbows or Kokanee is going to be an interesting experiment.
I'm guessing do to the basic productivity of the lake with a large biomass of Smaller Lake Trout and Suckers along with overall low populations Large Lake Trout we won't see a dramatic change.

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Yes sir......I'll bet my left one we don't see much of a change. even when GM had kokes and bows, those lakers were heavy sucker feeders. 72% of all fish in GM are suckers. My theory is to get kokes at GM they have to stay under the schools and chase them out in the open or along the canyon walls. Granby lakers have the luxury of the humps and big deep flats to ambush them. Along with this and the fact that there are just insane amounts of suckers in GM is why the GM laker are conditioned to eating more suckers tha anywhere else. Its why those huge GM lakers along with no mysis, have a white appearance to them, pale colored fins etc....
 

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Anybody on the forum that loves to fish at Green mountain, Willies, and granby. Please write on Jons blog to help me stress this point that i wrote on his blog, these three fisheries are the only fisheries in the state that have no protection for trophy lake trout(willies has a 1 over 30 but a slot should be implemeted). Dillon has no protection for Browns

Jon, Its fantastic that GM is a thriving fishery and one of the reasons I have loved to fish there. And once again I will thank you for all your efforts and transparency with us.
I don't understand the reasoning behind not protecting the trophies only because it is shown that density is increasing. This was the same reason you gave me for not protecting the brown trout in Dillon. After taking years a to finally see improvements it seems logical to protect the good results of your work. Both fisheries need those bigger fish to ensure good fishing in the future, and at both fisheries the bigger fish are old, and take a decade or more to replace. All across the state there are protective size restrictions on desired sport fish except ours. Look at the limits on walleye and bass along the front range, or look at the slot regulations at places like Taylor, Twin, Turquise, and now Blue mesa with a one over 32". Why does Granby, Green mountian, and Dillon(aside from the Char) have to be the only fisheries that don't have protective size limits? Youv'e got protection on grand lake for lakers, but its sees the least amount of laker fisherman than just about any laker fishery in the sate. Why protect the lake trout there and not the other fisheries that us guys in the public really care about?

Williams fok does have a one over 30", but it seems such a fishery, should have a slot on lakers just like all the other laker fisheries in the state.
 
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