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I finally located a little fishing hole in Clear Creek that a friend of mine has always bragged about-it's pretty productive for Clear Creek. He would never exactly tell me where it was, but I figured it out. I have a little ritual that I do when I fish there. Because I hate getting skunked, I start out by using a very light spinning setup and salmon eggs. This immediately gets me some action. After a couple of fish, the pressure is off and I switch to fly gear. It then slows down for me. I usually switch do a glo bug fly, figuring if they like salmon eggs on this stretch, they'll go for an imitation. Sometimes I will get impatient, though and I will smash a salmon egg on the glo bug or even put the salmon egg on the hook. Of course, the action will pick up. My brother always accuses me of cheating when I make flys "fishy". What do you all think? I always release them, if that makes any difference, but the problem is that if they take a "souped up" glo bug, they usually take the hook deep and I've lost a few fish that way (as in killed them).
 

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If you're fishing with bait, you are fishing for the table.  Keep your catch and grill 'em up (as long as it's legal to do so).   There have been lots of hooking mortality studies documenting the effects of using bait on trout.  Once you get dialed into a stream with the right flies and techniques, you'll catch more fish than you would with bait.  Are you getting a nagging feeling that you are maybe "getting away with something" when you doctor up your egg pattern?  I think you answered your own question.

TP
 

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Seems to me its more of a personal thing deep in your own mind.
 

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from a flyfishing perspective it is definatly CHEATING and certainly not fly fishing. but as from a just fishing point of view as long as it is leagle go for it.

i, like you dont like to get skunked and on many fishing trips will switch between bait and lure(spinning/fly) and have been known to doctor a fly or lure i have even put a bait hook on my fly leader and pined a live grass hopper on

i my self would not call it fly fishing if any scent was added to a fly

just using bait does not mean you are fishing for the table many times i have dunked worms in a small stream near here that is so small as to be almost unfishable the largest pools are about the size of a bathtub not much room to work but the crick is loaded with browns to 12 inches and it is a blast to walk along the crick catching and releasing them

it doesnt matter how good you are there are times when a bait dunker will way out fish you and there are times like when fish are on a binge like durning a hatch or busting bait that a good fly/lure fisher will absolutly slay them when the bait dunker gets skunked it all depends on the situation.

the best way to consistantly catch fish is to be versital when you limit your approach you will limit your success if that chalenge is what you live for then go for it and enjoy just dont juice up your fly and then claim to be flyfishing
 
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SLAYERFISH said:
Seems to me its more of a personal thing deep in your own mind.
What Slayerfish said. What feels "ethical" to you?

If it's legal and you're not uncomfortable with your decision, then who cares what your brother says.

If it makes you uncomfortable with yourself, why do it?

What do you want out of your experience?
 

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I went to Ren. Fest. this weekend and they had your motto.... "Cheat to win!!!!" I always vote for the black knight. hehe.

If the water system is Flies and Lures only then its cheating and illegal. Purest fly fisherman would frown apun it for sure. But it is still fishing.
 

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when i lived in greeley and first started to try to fly fish
i use to go to this shop and talk about wanting to learn
and to know some of the tricks of the trade

well if you know greeley you know what shop im talking about and well i was told that if im not having any luck on
some of the harder water to fish and there are some big trout in their and i cant get them to hit

that i was to hook my self not deep but deep enough to bleed a little on the fly

and that would help me catch some of the big ones in those waters

but the funny thing is when we did go fishing on some fly/lure only water and couldnt catch any a few of the guys we ran into and talked to told us the same thing

just so i say and get this out i didnt do the blood on the fly still didnt think it was right but i havent see or heard of anyone else talking about this so i thought i would say something has anyone else heard of this
 

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fishingkats said:
when i lived in greeley and first started to try to fly fish
i use to go to this shop and talk about wanting to learn
and to know some of the tricks of the trade

well if you know greeley you know what shop im talking about and well i was told that if im not having any luck on
some of the harder water to fish and there are some big trout in their and i cant get them to hit

that i was to hook my self not deep but deep enough to bleed a little on the fly       

and that would help me catch some of the big ones in those waters

but the funny thing is when we did go fishing on some fly/lure only water and couldnt catch any a few of the guys we ran into and talked to told us the same thing

just so i say and get this out i didnt do the blood on the fly still didnt think it was right   but i havent see or heard of anyone else talking about this so i thought i would say something                    has anyone else heard of this
OUCH!!! I think I would pass on this technique too.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I guess I do have some guilt about my little trick and I do somehow consider it unfair. My friend who taught it to me has an even worse cheat. One time, we were on the Blue (non fly and lures section) and no one was catching. He picks up a rock and looks for insects on the bottom of it. Smart, I thought. Well, he picks up a stonefly nymph and much to my surprise, pulls a no. 12 hook and spears the poor little bugger. He casts out his new"fly" and immediately catches a big 'bow. I protested loudly, but I have to admit it was resourceful and brilliant. I couldn't bring myself to touch the ugly bugs, though, so I didn't follow suit.
 

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I use to do that with grasshoppers, and never felt bad about it.
 

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The stonefly under the rock thing is definately "matching the hatch".Believe it or not,Waterton canyon used to have a rule fly and lure only OR "naturally occuring aquatic insects" rule.Geez this was around 1980 or so.That method slays 'em!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The stonefly this is a fly after all. In fact,I have seen stonefly imitations that look better than the real thing! As for the cheating thing, I think I'll set a personal policy that I can use a salmon egg for the first fish only, then I'll have to switch to undoctored fly gear.
 

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Whatever it takes to have fun fishing is my mantra- as long as it doesnt hurt anybody.
 

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SLAYERFISH said:
Whatever it takes to have fun fishing is my mantra- as long as it doesnt hurt anybody.
I second that, well said
 

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troutpocket said:
If you're fishing with bait, you are fishing for the table. Keep your catch and grill 'em up (as long as it's legal to do so).
With properly fished bait (IE drifted nightcrawler, actively jigging, proper gear, pole in hand) I rarely deeply hook a trout. Almost all are hooked in the lip and carefully released. Now most baitfisherman aren't like that though, but there are more than some people would beleive.

I don't think what you did is cheating as long as it is legal to do so. Know it would be terrible cheating on the blue however.

I have noticed many flyfisherman on the roaring fork river put pieces of worms on their nymphs and procede to catch double the amount of trout they were before. I bet a lot of anglers do that. I however, would not. Its against the law and you shouldn't break it!
 

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Alright, so you guys that are responsibly using bait and releasing fish: are you fishing barbless? I've done quite a bit of bait fishing in my years on the water and never had much luck keeping bait on a barbless hook. Over time I've gotten away from bait and always go barbless since I pinch my barbs at the bench. Proper fish handling is a whole other discussion to get into but I would argue that a barbed hook will nearly always require removing the fish from the water to unhook it while barbless hooks nearly always can be popped out without even lifting the fish from the water. I guess it just comes down to how much effort you want to put into C'N'R.

Tight lines,
TP
 

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no, not barbless. I really don't think barbless makes that huge of a difference though; is there any scientific studies to prove this? It would be nice to know and then maybe I would pinch down the front barb a bit but keep the bait holding barbs.
 

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I just did a quick search of the literature I could find on barbed/barbless hooking mortality and it comes down to what I posted over on the What Happens to The Fish thread: it's all about hooking location.  Assuming reasonably good handling, fish hooked in the lips survive, fish hooked in the gills or guts die.  Seems like common sense. 

Sorry if I came off sounding anti-bait under all circumstances.  I personally only use it when I'm planning to keep fish and even then prefer to use flies.

TP
 

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troutpocket said:
Sorry if I came off sounding anti-bait under all circumstances. I personally only use it when I'm planning to keep fish and even then prefer to use flies.

TP
hey no reason to be sorry. I guess you could say I'm sort of anti those guys that go down with 17 lb test, powerbait, a 1/2 oz sinker, a treble hook, and let the fish swallow it to there ass. There are places that are fine for that and that's put and take fisheries but wild trout shouldn't be tormented that way. Gives baitfisherman a bad name. TroutPocket, you ever fish the Colorado river with flies?
 
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