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gofindyourowndamnfish said:
What an historic time in the Middle East........
Please continue the .............. I'm curious on what you have to say. Do you believe what is happening to be a good thing? Do you believe it is a rise of the people wanting freedom? Or do you think it is the extremest Muslims up to no good?
 

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The Situation said:
gofindyourowndamnfish said:
What an historic time in the Middle East........
Please continue the .............. I'm curious on what you have to say. Do you believe what is happening to be a good thing? Do you believe it is a rise of the people wanting freedom? Or do you think it is the extremest Muslims up to no good?

The reality is probably somewhere in the middle...

...These people want basic services, jobs, human rights, and other things we take for granted. If you can provide that then the minority that stirs the pot won't be able to...
 

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ElPasoCounty said:
The Situation said:
gofindyourowndamnfish said:
What an historic time in the Middle East........
Please continue the .............. I'm curious on what you have to say. Do you believe what is happening to be a good thing? Do you believe it is a rise of the people wanting freedom? Or do you think it is the extremest Muslims up to no good?

The reality is probably somewhere in the middle...

...These people want basic services, jobs, human rights, and other things we take for granted. If you can provide that then the minority that stirs the pot won't be able to...
It's all fun and games until you shoot your peoples while trying to be a hardass.....that's when other peoples get upset and make you pay.
 

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Was just reading up on Ghadaffi (sp?)...


Bodyguards

Gaddafi's choice of bodyguards has been the subject of much media attention. His 40-member bodyguard contingent, known as the Amazonian Guard, is entirely female. All women who qualify for duty supposedly must be virgins, and are hand-picked by Gaddafi himself. They are trained in the use of firearms and martial arts at a special academy before entering service
Damn!
 

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§uper Off Topic Guy said:
Was just reading up on Ghadaffi (sp?)...


Bodyguards

Gaddafi's choice of bodyguards has been the subject of much media attention. His 40-member bodyguard contingent, known as the Amazonian Guard, is entirely female. All women who qualify for duty supposedly must be virgins, and are hand-picked by Gaddafi himself. They are trained in the use of firearms and martial arts at a special academy before entering service
Damn!
Gadhafi's bodyguards may still be virgins... but how about his camels? >:D
 

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This playing out differently. NATO seems reluctant to take out their air defenses and impose a no fly zone so that he can't bomb his citizens.
 

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It's a lose lose situation, we have taken out two brutal oppressive governments and are hated by the Muslim world, now we stand and watch and let them figure it out themselves. Somehow I don't think they will be our friend either.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
sswan said:
This playing out differently. NATO seems reluctant to take out their air defenses and impose a no fly zone so that he can't bomb his citizens.
Maybe the "rebels'" skin isn't white enough.....

The thought has crossed my mind.
 

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gofindyourowndamnfish said:
sswan said:
This playing out differently. NATO seems reluctant to take out their air defenses and impose a no fly zone so that he can't bomb his citizens.
Maybe the "rebels'" skin isn't white enough.....

The thought has crossed my mind.
??? ??? ::)

Maybe it's more complicated than that and the US isn't willing to get into another war right now.... especially without world wide support...and in the midst of a deep recession.

The United States...Come in for humanitary reasons and the world would still say we're there only to steal their oil....

We can't win for losing...either way...We'll end up being the bad guys...while Russia, China, France, Germany, etc...sit on the sidelines and watch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/world/africa/03military.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=libya
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm not talking about only the US. The rest of the world has largely ignored atrocities when it involves "only" African on African bloodshed.

You can't tell me that skin color doesn't play a role.
 

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Yep ...They have..and why's that? Is it because we'd be fighting wars in regions where we couldn't win...How'd we do in Vietnam...A small country compared to the continent of Africa...

Tribal...not centralized governments...where the opposing side in most cases is no better than the other...Who do you "put in power"? Do you think democracy would work in those regions?

Generally speaking, countries wage war for strategic reasons...

I thought everyone was under the impression that the world hated us for always poking our noses into other countries business..Isn't that why the terrorists hate us? ::) Yet, we're supposed to be the world's police force...And we know how much everyone hates cops.. ::)

It's not about the color Black in Africa...it's all about the color Green...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Sure it's about the color black, hobie. It has been for decades. It has little to do with "tribal" governments. We have perceived no 'self interest" in halting black on black slaughters, and neither has most of the rest of the world, regardless of the human toll. That's the shameful reality. Call it a "green" reality if you want, but it doesn't change the facts.

I do agree with you, though, that when it comes to the current "popular uprisings" in Arab countries, we are damned if we do, and damned if we don't. I'm certainly not advocating that we jump into the middle of another conflict in that part of the world.
 

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It's always about self interest and the Green. We weren't too interested in Germany's extermination of the Jews either....not until Germany drug us into the war kicking and screaming...

Wouldn't it be great if everyone just got along....? But, in the real world...we don't have nearly the resources...or support...to wade into other countries problems for humanitary reasons alone.

I thought there was an argument against going into Iraq? In spite of how Saddam treated his populace...Afghanistan....doesn't everyone want us to get out? Even knowing the Taliban would fill the vacuum...Do we want to overthrow the government of Saudi Arabia...That's a pretty repressive government...What about the atrocities and the abuse of human rights in China..? Should we go to war?

Did we step in and stop Lenin and Stalin when they murdered millions in Russia...? What about North Korea? Chavez in Venezuela? Pakistan?


We can't fix evevyone's problems...Shoot..We can't even fix our own...
 

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Africa has had the support of the UN for decades and there has been a UN Security Force on hand to watch almost all the attrocities and even participate in a few of them.
I think the condition on the African continent is on the UN's head, that has been their project and it is an abject failure.
There is no upside to the US getting involved and we are much better to sit this one out. Take a look at the Sec Def's comments at West Point earlier this week and you can see the direction the military is looking. He is speaking at the AFA today and I expect him to say much the same.
 

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I think its great that there is a grass roots movement to move to a more democratic society. Im hoping that it happens with a little less bloodshed, however peeps have to remember we lost a ton of people in our own revolution against the Brits...Freedom aint free it always comes at a price..
 

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I think letting them earn and own their freedom will cause them to put a higher value upon it.
Some vets I have talked to say that in the current wars the natives are happy to stand behind our men but it gets a little sketchy when it's time to reverse rolls so it is heartening to see people risking their lives for freedom.
The danger is always there for some other tyrant to take control as has happened many times but I hope our state dept is ready with a plan to help the rebels form a new gov.
We have a very good template rather than the parliamentary systems out there that have monarchs, prime ministers and presidents all sharing power as heads of state.
 
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