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Discussion Starter #1
I notice on the board most posts have to do with places to go-this lake or that lake, whats biting, etc. Nothing wrong with that but I'm thinking we should be discussing techniques and presentation as well. I bet if I asked everyone who trolls for walleye what they use and how they rig it, we could all learn something from each other that we could use on any lake where we're fishing for walleye. Or how about presentations for bass-I fish tubes and senkos and jerks ALOT. It would be nice to compare notes with others to see how they're fishing these baits.

I just think theres a lot to be gained by discussing not only the "where" but also the "how". Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Why not start with how guys troll for walleye-bottom bouncers, spinner rigs, just a plain old jig, do you always use some type of live bait with the presentation? I say this because I haven't done any of these things-I'm a virgin when it comes to trolling for eyes but I know enough to know it can absolutely be the best way to fish for them. Ed
 
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Tips for bottom bouncing:

Use the bow mount and go just fast enough to make the blade spin.

Use fireline to feel the bottom.  You don't want the bait dragging in the muck.

Use a baitcasting reel with a flipping switch.  That way you can adjust the dept with just one hand.  Of course, that doesn't work when reeling it in though.

Use the bottom bouncers that have the rubber filled sinkers so when the sinker snags, it just rips the weight off and you don't have to totally re-rig.  Cabelas sells these.

Bigger blades cause more lift.

Colorado blades cause more lift.
 
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Best to keep your line at a 45 degree angle, else you are laying your bottom bouncer on the ground.

Pick a speed and weight bottom bouncer that will allow you to maintain 45 degrees.

Guy in the front needs to fish with slightly more weight than the one in the back.

Length of leader will have to shortened or lengthened based on (1) speed, (2) weight of blades and most of all (3) what the fish want.

Deep cupped Colorado blades have more thump than normal Colorado blades.

Willow leafs have the least.
 

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DK.

Great info man.

So when you say make sure your line is at a 45 degree that makes me think that I should not have that much line out?

-Jay
 
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Sometimes I use no blades at all, just a bead or two. alot of my fish hit just 1 hook with 1 bead. I allways use a crawler or leech,never even tried a minnow but I will this weekend. most of the time the bouncer is right below you in water over 15 feet.
 

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I give out my worm technique that catches so many big trout for me on the colorado river in private messages. I'm sure I've probably posted it on this board as well. In short it is much how a flyfisherman drifts a nymph, barely ticking bottom.
As for curly tail grubs for trout, I like casting out into a spot with moderate current that looks to hold brown trout. (rainbows take curly tails, but not with the will of brown trout who like them about 1/2 as much as a presented nightcrawler.) Cast out at about 1 oclock. Let the current do the work, let it sink it to the bottom and let it make the curly tail spin. Every now and then, give it a sharp jerk. When it is out of the current and parallel to the bank, or if you are fishing a hole without current, sink it to the bottom and real it in steadily so it is ticking bottom, or you can sink it to the bottom and retrieve it in a series of lift falls and pauses.

As for bass fishing, for soft plastics jerks like senkos and flukes, most people I've seen fish them TOO FAST. Cast it out, let it sink to the bottom, it may be a bit time consuming but you get a lot of hits on the sink. Now, just twitch it back in with a soft twitch every few seconds, but always make sure the senko or fluke is near the bottom. I've really seen few people fish them this way, but it is really dynamite, especially this time of year when bass are slow moving like this technique is. Hope this helps.

I've already described snap jigging for walleye I believe, with 3/8 oz. crocodiles and the new buckshot rattlespoon, but I'll do it again. Cast out, and sink it to the bottom. Then give it a sharp jerk to the side, let it sink almost to the bottom and wiggle your rod tip back and forth, let it sink to the bottom. Give it a sharp jerk. Let it settle near the bottom and wiggle your rod tip back and forth. Repeat...repeat... Of course you can vary the retreive but this works well. Having never trolled for walleye I don't know what that's about.

I could go on forever but those are my very basic ones.
 

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I don't know why im giving out my tip but hell, we're all fisherman here and everyone here is pretty cool so what the hell.

My tip is Bass fishing with a Senko type bait. Like all weightless Senko fishing, cast it out and let it sink on a slack line. I let it sit for 10 to 30 seconds depending on the fishes mood. When your ready reel in the slack then lift your rod untill your at 10:00 and give it alittle twitch. By giving it that little twitch it will cause your bait to do a fast loop. This drives the Bass crazy. Last year on more than one occassion I fished side by side with several people useing the same bait but with the twitch I out fished them big time. ***edit*** The only problem with stick type baits is their hard as hell to fish if there is any wind. If the wind is blowing I like to throw a C.rigged craw or lizard. My goto bait is a purple craw. These things work so well. if you'd like to buy some there is a person on ebay that sells them., They are nice and soft and although I dont like trout Ive caught alot of trout on them too***edit***


-Jay
 

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boom! That's it jay. Another slow senko fisherman.
Here's another tip for using a senko:
wacky rig it. (just push the hook through the middle of the worm.) Cast it out and sink it to the bottom, let it sit a few seconds, and then wiggle the rod back and forth slightly so it just moves the bait. I have sightfished and for some reason this calls fish in from all around. I guess it vibrates or something? Oh well, it works well also.
 
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Jay - what I meant was if you draw a line straight down to the bottom and that becomes 0 degrees and the water surface would be 90 (or 270), you'd want nothing greater than 45.

Another senko tip that got us 3rd in a bass tourney.  1/8 oz. orange jig and a brown/metal flake 3 inch senko.  Worm the senko on the jig as you would a twister tail or a worm.  Allows you to fish deeper with little water resistance and the smallies dont really care if there is not a waggling tail.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
TFBear-Something you might want to try when you wacky rig a senko. They sell some small rubber bands that you can put on the middle of a senko, then you slip the hook between the rubber band and the bait. That way its wacky rigged but the hook isn't in the bait. So the senko is a lot less likely to tear-and the senko won't tear on the hookset either. You get a lot more use out of each bait. Ed
 

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Ed Marcol said:
So the senko is a lot less likely to tear-and the senko won't tear on the hookset either.
This is the major problem with Senko type baits.

-Jay

PS. For the record I have never bought the name brand Senko.Thats why I always refure to it as 'Senko Type Bait' I like Tiki Sticks, Chop Sticks And yum dingers. Id have to say I like the Yum dinger the best cause it has that little hook valley.
 

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Hey Ed, great ideal. Thanks. Trout fishing bear & Jay. Thanks also, I spent most of yesturday fishing Pella's Crossing w/o so much as a bite.  :-[  I think I was going way to fast (w/tube). I'll definatly try that twitch thing.  Thanks again.
 
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Ed Marcol said:
 They sell some small rubber bands that you can put on the middle of a senko, then you slip the hook between the rubber band and the bait.  That way its wacky rigged but the hook isn't in the bait. 
I have some multi-colored ones that were left over from my daughter's days in braces. I think they'll be perfect. I've also used rubber O-rings from Home Depot, but they're a little expensive. I'm a big believer in the weightless, slow- lift & twitch, wacky-rigged Senko.
 

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Here's another Senko and jerk bait tip. Gopher tackle makes a 3/32 oz Mushroom head jig on a 2/0 Gami, or Owner hook. These are light enough not to destroy the action of the Senko, Bass Asassin, Sluggo or whatever you use. It alows you to cast a little farther and fish deeper. The long shank hook increases your odds and has a wider gap!

Here's something I tried my last two times up to 11-Mile for Pike. If you want to fish either a big reaper or Fin S Fish/ Sluggo style jerk bait. Don't Texas rig them because they are made of really dense plastic and the hook point won't penetrate properly! Gamakatsu makes an 7/0 Siwash hook, that is heavy gage steel. It is a Salt water hook. Run it thru the bait and out the top exposed. Now you can throw this bait a long way on 7' MH spinning rod, large spooled reel in the 4000 series.  You reel slowly and keep it slithering over the weed tops. When they take it, the hook is exposed! I had a huge Tiger follow a white 8" Reaper right up to me at Quincy  last summer.
 

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What is the general rule as to how much weight to use bottom bouncing?

My trade secret for early season LM bass is the jig n pig. This is a deadly bait in water temp below 50 degrees and continues on to 65. After 65 plastic trailers seem to work better. Do not hesitate to use a very large trailer like a jumbo or big daddy. This bait can be crawled or hopped along the bottom very SLOWLY and bass cannot resist. I have landed 70 percent of my biggest bass ever on this bait when the water temp was below 65.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
McFish-Right you are!! The jig and pig is a big bass bait-like you most of my largest bass here in CO have come on it. Give me a 3/16 to 3/8 oz. jig with black/brown skirt and a thin wire hook-its just a great way to fish. Ed
 
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McFish said:
What is the general rule as to how much weight to use bottom bouncing? 
That depends on water depth, speed and presentation. Here is an example. 15 FOW, .8MPH with a #4 Colorado blade and worm harness you can start with a 3/4 oz. Pick the speed up and you might have to go to a 1oz. I have an array of bottom bouncers from 1/2 to 3 ozs.
 
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