Colorado Fisherman Forum banner

What's your opinion of the N.J. state transit authority's firing of this worker and the lawsuit he f

  • No, not okay. He was excercising his free speech right. Thank you to the ACLU for representing him.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, it's okay. He was a state transit worker. Burning the Quran is not "speech"

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, it's okay. Burning the Quran by a state worker might lead to terrorist attacks on the transit s

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, it's okay. What he did was "arson"

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, it's okay. The state's ethics code required that he get permission for political activities

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,877 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Just curious what you all think of this. The employee has now sued the State of New Jersey for violating what he claims is his First amenedment right to free speech and freedom of expression. The ACLU is representing the employee.

You can read more here http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/25644991/detail.html, but the facts can be summarized as follows:

A New Jersey state transit system employee was fired by the state after he burned part of the Quran to protest plans to build an Islamic center several blocks from the World Trade Center site. Police ushered him from the scene, but he was not arrested. NJ Transit said it fired him two days later for violating its code of ethics.

NJ Transit's code of ethics requires employees to give notice to an ethics liaison officer before participating in political activities. An employee can then participate so long as state or federal law or agency rules don't explicitly prohibit them and "the activity doesn't conflict with the employee's official duties."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,320 Posts
Im split on this, as the only option I could go with was no, they didn't have the right, it was free speech. If someone can burn the flag and use that excuse, so can he, I mean its just a book.

As for the ACLU, I dunno, Id be a hypocrite if I said I was glad they were representing him, because I really can't stand the group, they also stand up for that f'd up Westboro church. As I believe free speech is free speech unless it truly effects somebody else, and protesting a soldiers funeral really hurts already beaten down families.

If it was in his contract with the state, then not much can be said. Just like with Olberman, I lmao that he got what he got, but in all reality, I don't think that what someone donates to should have any effect on if they keep their job or not. But... It was in his contract.

You should add another option just stating, if it was in his agreement with the state, then so be it.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,879 Posts
As long as he didn't do it as a representative of the public transit system.

Did he do it while in his work uniform? On duty? As a reprentative of the State? If he did then yeah, can him...but if he was off duty and acting as a private citizen then the State should have no issue with it.

I hope New Jersey pays...For sure a violation of his rights to free speach...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,320 Posts
lol Instead of adding an option he just took away the one I chose, awesome
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,877 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Mr. Green Thumb said:
lol Instead of adding an option he just took away the one I chose, awesome
There was no "contract" allowing the state to terminate him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,320 Posts
gofindyourowndamnfish said:
Mr. Green Thumb said:
lol Instead of adding an option he just took away the one I chose, awesome
There was no "contract" allowing the state to terminate him.
They are basing the firing off of an agreement of some sort right? Im just saying, agreement, code of ethics, contract, kind of the same thing right? And this is their argument.

That really wasn't what I was talking about with my second post though. You took away my reasoning for not agreeing with the firing, but still booing the ACLU. Just not sure why. Now I don't feel I can choose any of the options you have given.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,877 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Mr. Green Thumb said:
They are basing the firing off of an agreement of some sort right? Im just saying, agreement, code of ethics, contract, kind of the same thing right? And this is their argument.
So, in your opinion is it okay for the State of New Jersey to require him to give up his First Amendment right to participate in political activities in order to work for the state or one of its agencies?

That really wasn't what I was talking about with my second post though. You took away my reasoning for not agreeing with the firing, but still booing the ACLU. Just not sure why. Now I don't feel I can choose any of the options you have given.
So, you want to disagree with the firing, but not applaud the ACLU for taking on this case involving denial of his First Amendment rights?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,320 Posts
No, see, Unless you work for yourself, every employee, for 95% of the jobs someone is employed for, signs paperwork with rules that they agree to abide by. Im saying that with them hiring him, if they can prove that he signed an agreement to follow their rules of ethics, and can also prove that what he did was a violation, then what can be said <shrug> No I don't agree with them firing him for expressing his freedom of speech.

As for the ACLU, just like I said in my first post. They as an organization I have disagreed with them on many many of the things they have done, enough so, that I'd rather see another something come to his defense, I just have issues with that particular group. I mean where the hell is this union he's been paying his dues to, isn't this exactly what they are for? Teachers unions protect their teachers who call black kids the N word, whats the deal with this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,320 Posts
lol were sooo close! you should have just left it the way it was!
Let me also add, that what he did, I do not see as a political activity, so I do not agree with his firing, and what they are doing is violating his freedom of speech.



Kinda question why your up at 3 in the morning... can you not sleep the night before going fishing either? lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,877 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Ha ha. I'm up because I've woked screwy hours all week and can't get back to sleep.

As for burning the Quran in protest of the "mosque" or "community center" being built where it is planned, how can you say that is not a "political" activity? And even if it is not "political", why would you think it okay for the state to demand that it approve, or even be notified of an employee's political activities?

Let's face it, the only problem you have with this employee suing New Jersey is that the ACLU is representing him. Right? :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,320 Posts
Yes, my only problem is the ACLU lol No I don't think its ok for them to have anything to do with his life outside of work out of uniform. I don't see it as a political activity, and let me first say, none of us know for sure why he did it, but I'd like to believe that he was simply doing it to say "I am not afraid of you. You will not terrorize me." But like I said, none of us know. That would have been my thought process if I was low enough to think something like that was justified.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,877 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I absolutely detest some of the people and causes that the ACLU has represented in the past, like the Westboro Baptist thugs and the KKK. I think it's hilarious that theACLU gets a "liberal" lable. Those certainly cannot be characterized as "liberal" causes or groups.

However, even though I hate the message that groups of that sort preach, I think it's critical that there is an organization out there willing to stand up for the right to preach messages that may not be "popular".

I love this particular cause of the New Jersey employee. Even though I disagree with his protest against that particular"mosque" or "community center", and disagree with Quran burning or Bible burning, I certainly think the right to protest free of government interference is important to our other freedoms.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,554 Posts
I don't think you should be fired or punished in any way for burning any kind of book. RETARDED. He probably paid out of his own pocket to own the book and used his freedom of choice/speech to burn it. Good for him. Why would anyone care? So many sissies in the world. I don't care if it's the bible, koran, or even the piece of paper required to fire josh mcdaniels (which I would hold dear). There's always more paper.

Unless there was something in his contract/job description that said specifically that he could not burn books, he should sue their PC asses off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,755 Posts
Seems like burning some group's holy book is more of a religious activity than a political activity. In general, anyway. But doing so as part of a demonstration of that sort, makes it a political activity, IMO. If he did it in his capacity as a private citizen, then he should be protected by free speech laws, even if it was a stupid thing to do, which it was.

However, if he was functioning as a private citizen, how did NJ Transit get the word that this happened? Did he tell someone he was NJ Transit's employee as he was burning the book? That should certainly get him fired.

Bottom line: I can't decide. Let the courts fight it out.

Although I will say, the fact that the ACLU is representing him already makes his case kind of suspect. I don't trust an ACLU lawyer any farther than I can throw him. Which is not far, at my age.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,402 Posts
Once again I cannot say this was smart, in fact, it was incendiary (and I disagree with it completely). Does he have the "right"? As long as (and from what I have seen there is nothing to the contrary) there was no ethics code violation--breaking a procedural/city rule--then yes he does. But if he did act contrary, without the consent of approval from his superiors, and "on duty," then the case should be thrown out (in my opinion).

D.J.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,272 Posts
gofindyourowndamnfish said:
I absolutely detest some of the people and causes that the ACLU has represented in the past, like the Westboro Baptist thugs and the KKK. I think it's hilarious that theACLU gets a "liberal" lable. Those certainly cannot be characterized as "liberal" causes or groups.

However, even though I hate the message that groups of that sort preach, I think it's critical that there is an organization out there willing to stand up for the right to preach messages that may not be "popular".

I love this particular cause of the New Jersey employee. Even though I disagree with his protest against that particular"mosque" or "community center", and disagree with Quran burning or Bible burning, I certainly think the right to protest free of government interference is important to our other freedoms.
I couldn't agree more.......well put.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,128 Posts
This was purely political correctness motivated here. He was doing it on his own time according to O'Reilly last night. He has every right to do it, whether it's mean spirited or not. As much as I dislike the American Criminal Liberties Union, I say kudos to them on this one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,877 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
IceInTheVeins. said:
As much as I dislike the American Criminal Liberties Union, I say kudos to them on this one.
I guess there might be hope for you after all.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top