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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, after reading many an enlightening post I've decided to brave the wrath of vets on here and try this myself.

I'd been out of fishing thing for over 4 years due to a growing business keeping me "too busy" when I got some time off a few weeks ago and decided to knock the dust off of my spin rods (yuuuup I'm a metal & plastic slinger) and try out something close to home (Arkansas River below Pueblo).

I must say I was pleasantly surprised by the changes to the river and surprising lack of crowds. For nearly a week I had the river to myself most of the time and the few fisherman I encountered where friendly and willing to share some info about where I could get into some holdovers. Within a day or two I figured out colors and times relatively easily and actually landed a few Bows pushing 20".

But then it happened. Someone told someone that they owned certain holes and the combat fishing began. Nasty looks cast in the direction of those who dare to use anything but a fly. Snarls when those who dared outfished them and even running to a hole to prevent someone from fishing there.

My question is this. Is it a right of passage that certain types of fisherman believe theirs is the only method to fish? I am of the belief that "to each his own" and best wishes of tight lines to those who fish ethically. Feather Mechants, Metal Slingers and even Bait Dunkers should be welcomed so long as they aren't encroaching too close to one already fishing.

Fellow Fisherman please enlighten me on what happened to this mentality during my four year absence from something I have enjoyed for over 40 years.

Regards,
Grumpy
 

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Well, as someone who fishes with both gear and a fly rod, I can chime in.

It is pretty basic. Gear tears up trout. Single barbless hooks on spoons do no more damage than a streamer would, but how many people do you honestly know even own a pair of split-ring pliers, or would bother taking the time to swap out trebles for singles?

A lot of people practice catch and release fishing. Some waters even mandate it. New times have new problems... in grandads day it was 110% catch and kill. Waters got tapped out, ****, some gamefish went extinct. Now the same fish get caught, beat up, put back, caught, beat up, put back, caught, beat up... I have caught plenty trout in mandatory C&R water missing entire portions of their face. Trout are fairly frail, compared to lots of other fish. So fly-fishing trout anglers (such as myself, I only fish for trout with a fly rod these days) sorta hate to see someone packing a spinning rod.

For the whole "They are mad because I outfished them" thing, well, maybe some are. I have flat out stomped gear guys fishing the same areas as me many times, but in all honesty, if I wanted to catch maximum trout, and the methods be damned, I would use a long, medium light spinning rod with four pound test and a marabou jig. I don't think there is an overall better way to put up big numbers than a spinning rod. Casting is exponentially easier, you can stay way back from the area you intend to fish, line management is stupid easy, connections are greatly simplified, and fighting fish is retarded easy with a multiplying ratio reel. So I would not get too eager to pat yourself on the back for outfishing fly anglers.

Nobody owns water, unless they are already there when you get there, and then they ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY own it, at least till they leave. Gear guys are the worst about this, again, because they can just flick a little easy cast and cover all the water in most pools. They walk up on a run from the opposite bank and start crossing my drift all the time. I have a pretty bad temper, so my usual response is to just pick up and split, because I don't like the way the conversations go when I point out the error of their ways.

Having said that, fly guys do it too. And I dislike it even more when they do it, because nine times out of ten they are well within conversational range, again, because the fly rod is limited in range.

As for the question of "Is it a right of passage that certain types of fisherman believe theirs is the only method to fish?" Yeah, I get that feeling pretty strong. I will fish with bait, troll, ice fish, fly fish, use spinning rods or casting rods, depending on the situation. I like to catch fish. I hate ice fishing bad, but I do it, because I have to fish. So when people are like "Oh, once you start fly fishing, you will sell all your gear" or "I never troll, trolling is for drunks" or "I don't use spinning rods, real anglers use casting gear" or whatever idiotic thing people say, I have as hard a time understanding that as you.

I doubt heartily any of that is "enlightening" but it is my 2¢.

Cheers.

-Shaun
 

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Discussion Starter #3
swimbait,

Thanks for the feedback. It is appreciated. I too practice catch and release on most occasions. Every once in a while I keep a few for the wife as I don't care for the tasted of trout (I'm a catfish guy myself). With that said I do pinch the barbs on my hooks, but haven't tried using singles on the types of lures I use (usally crankbaits) for fear of hurting the action of the lure. Any advice on that would be welcomed.

As for fishing too close to fly fisherman (or any other type) I usually try and stay two hundred feet away at minimum or just wait for them to vacate the hole before I even try. Personally I don't mind having fly guys enter "my hole" if they ask, as I just like to see fish being caught usually even if I'm not the one doing so.

As far as one type of fishing vs another its too each his own. I have and sometimes still will fly-fish. I like you just like to fish and catching is only part of the joy of it. Sometimes the fresh air and sound of water just enables me to decompress from life's challenges.
 

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swimbait,

Thanks for the feedback. It is appreciated.
No sweat man. I actually love seeing thoughtful posts from new members.

With that said I do pinch the barbs on my hooks, but haven't tried using singles on the types of lures I use (usally crankbaits) for fear of hurting the action of the lure. Any advice on that would be welcomed.
Sure, easy. I am beyond paranoid about hooks and hook sharpness. Several years I have actually spent more than a grand on hooks. I have a lovely and understanding wife.

You are going to have to weigh the hooks. The action of the lure is determined by –among many other things– the weight of the hooks, not the size or configuration. So take the hooks off the bait, weigh them on a super accurate little digital scale of the type used by scientists or persons engaged in illicit commerce, and substitute hooks which weigh as close as possible to the stock hooks. If you can't lay hands on a scale accurate in tenths of a gram, take a paper clip and bend it into a tiny balance beam. Put the stock hook on one side, and test possible replacements against that.

The bad news is that there are not tons of suitable single hook replacements available. These tend to fall, broadly speaking, under the umbrella of "siwash hooks" so using siwash as a search term helps a lot.

The good news is singles that weigh the same as trebles tend to have a lot more gap, as they are one to two sizes larger on average. So hooking efficiency is increased compared to trebles.

I got pretty refined in my spin-fishing for trout methods before I started fly fishing. I would use two spoons (Acme Kastmasters and Bay-De-Noc Swedish Pimples) in a few sizes and two colors, straight gold and chrome. Sure other colors worked, but not often would they be better enough to bother stocking them. I also used one type of spinner, called Flicker Spinners, made by Hildebrandt, again in silver and gold, and various jigs, mostly marabou, but some hair jigs or plastics as well. I quit using that stuff because frankly, I got bored with it. It worked too well.

Cheers!

SS
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Good stuff swimbait. I'll do my homework and try some out. Not sure if your in the Springs area, but if you are and want to hook up and do some catchin' PM me. This is my time of the year to go whenever I want.

Tight Lines
 

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Thanks very kindly for the invite. I'm in Denver, but if I head down there I will keep that in mind.

Enjoy your time off! Nobody ever laid on their deathbed thinking they fished too much.

Cheers!

SS
 

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Some people are jerks no matter what rod they're holding. Personally, I've ran into very few on the rivers.. I think common courtesy dictates giving a wide birth..ask if they're getting ready to move up or not...or better yet, skip the next hole. I might be able to fish a hole for a few hours, maybe all day with a fly rod..in the same hole with a spinning rod...three of four casts may put all of the fish down..and it's time to move up.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I think I'll chalk it up to I just ran into a few jerks on that particular day. Like I said I had a nearly a week of pure heaven with the only encounters being friendly ones. I seem to see the same regulars each time I visit and they have been more than amiable.

Either way it won't stop me from going. Just need to pick my times not to coincide with the "jerk spawning"....LMAO
 

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I like to fish with both types of gear. In a river or stream, i always use a fly rod because i feel it is the most efficient and best tool for the job.
Now, if you happen to encounter any snonbs or A-holes, the solution is simple, you do not talk to them or get into a confrontation, you just go up to the truck, grab the 7 foot medium fast, with a big ol' J-13 on and cast away like a mad man up stream, down stream, and acrross the stream. This work exceptionally well at the Taylor tailwater.
 

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I've spent the better part of 30 years fly fishing. Its the one constant passion I've had no matter what else changes. I grew up fishing 95% with a fly rod in the Appalachians and the only time a bait-caster or spinning rod came up was for catfish and striper - and frankly that was always an adults only game that, as a kid, I wasn't invited to do very often. In the last few years, thanks to help from members of this board, I purchased both Light-weight and Medium-weight spinning rods and have learned to truly enjoy the style - especially as I've taught my kids. Being out and on the water, lake or river, is something my family and I love and having all available methods keeps us happy and busy.

With all that being said, I have seen a couple friends lose their interest - if not their interest, their patience - with fly-fishing and fly-fisherman in the last few years. In fact, their issues all started on the same fishery you described.

I typically don't have issues with the spin guys or the bait guys. Most of those guys fish the lakes in this state and when they fish rivers they usually fish so fast and are fishing spoons or spinners that they miss the fish that are on dries and nymphs so they aren't necessarily targeting the same fish as me anyway. Typically, when I fish up a run and come upon a spin guy I say hi, ask how its going, point out an aggressive pod of fish or two If I noticed any and move on.

My issues usually come from the other Fly guys. Most haven't been taught and I get that, but basic manners is something everyone should learn. It used to be the guy that fly fished did so because it was either passed down by the family (like me) or it was something different and intriguing they wanted to learn. They spent the time learning bugs and flies and asked questions on the river. There was also ethics and manners. Maybe this is more the issue. I'm teaching my kids the proper distance to give people and how to ask people about there day and be NICE. It really isn't that hard. I don't see that much these days. Instead, you can fish a nice run and someone will come in 20 yards ahead of you and "high-hole" the run. Or you can have 5 miles of open river and the one other guy that comes out that day decides that standing in your hip pocket is the best place to cast.

Don't get me wrong, I help people and have zero issue with sharing. I share flies, help people when I see them struggle and have even spent a good portion of the morning (recently) helping to get a couple guys into fish because they had no idea what they were doing - damn Texans:D


By the way, this isn't a Fishing issue, its a human issue. I snowboard and a good portion of Skiers hate "my kind". I also hike and mountain-bike and the die hard hikers hate mountain bikers and bikers hate horses and so forth and so on. Anytime there is shared space it seems everyone thinks they are entitled to use it and there way is best.

For me, fish the way you want. I read the Ice posts on here and even get jealous of the gratuitous meat picks from everyone. Fish ethically, stay within the law and respect the resource.
 

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The movie A River Runs Through It got alot of people into the sport. Years ago when I worked at Gene Taylors, the Jackson Cardinal Fleis rep told me that business almost doubled for them after the movie came out. Thanks Brad Pitt. You effed it up for all us good ol boys and got the polo shirt kaki pants wearing escalade drivers all up in our ****.
 

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I can't remember the last time I had trouble with any other fishermen. Grumpy sounds like a cool guy so I think he just had bad luck. Over the years I've noted some posters seem to have a lot of unhappy encounters. If you're looking for trouble you'll find it. Nice post Grumpy - and others!
 

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My II Cents

Pretty simple to me .
It's plain common courtesy, fishing, driving, boating, shopping, working, etc. etc.
We have become a society crammed into limited space and me first is the rule to many times.
 

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By the way, this isn't a Fishing issue, its a human issue. I snowboard and a good portion of Skiers hate "my kind". I also hike and mountain-bike and the die hard hikers hate mountain bikers and bikers hate horses and so forth and so on. Anytime there is shared space it seems everyone thinks they are entitled to use it and there way is best.
I really believe this is the crux of the matter. More often than not you find people who believe "their way" is the only way. Probably doesn't matter what the endeavor it is - someone will always believe their way is better than the other guy.

Since I love to fish, the area where I find this disparity most prominant is the "fly versus gear" debate. I find it hard to believe there is such a "hate" between gear and fly guys. I grew up a worm dunker. It was all I knew since my parents weren't outdoor types whereas I was. I was lucky that when I started fly fishing I had a really good instructor (my boss who was the wing commander at our unit). He grew up in Arvada and was a died in the wool fly guy but really had his stuff together. He taught me not only about fly fishing but the etiquitte that should go along with it. Unfortunately I still had my run-ins on the rivers I chose to fish and quickly learned that not everyone was going to get along when space began getting crowded.

It was because of these run-ins I decided to purchase a pontoon so I could fish lakes away from shore where I could avoid run-ins. I could use it to float rivers where I could find a solitary spot away from others - or I could float past an area that was already occupied. Fortunately, again I had a good friend that taught me about floating rivers and what was proper etiquitte. And even then, I ended up having a few run-ins....been low holed by guides and their sports who figured any part of the river was theirs to fish. You just have to shake your head, get back on the pontoon and float a little further to another spot.

Good etiquitte or "my way or the highway" seem to be the two extremes and I doubt we will ever get totally away from the conflicts between the two. However, I am guessing that good etiquitte is the better solution if we could just get to that plateau in our outdoor endeavors whatever they may be.

Just my two cents worth.
 

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Just stay away from the "flailer" waters. Let them feel superior to the metal mulisha and then everybody's happy.

We all know "they" are fishing the way GOD intended-
 

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All I fish open water are rivers using a CD #9 or 11 rapala for 30 years and can't really remember having issue's with Flairs. Guess I'm just a likable guy;D I have had some ask what I was using and when I show them they usually tie on the biggest streamer they have. When I first started to fish it was with a flyrod and thats all I did for years but for some reason tried a rapala while fishing cheeseman and the flyrod has collected dust since then.

IMO fly fishing is way more challenging then spin. I'm always impressed with the guys that can kick ass on the river with a fly rod because I know how much time they have put into mastering there craft. Spin fishing is just easier and most of the time as effective if not more effective
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for all of the responses. It is encouraging to say the least to know that it was more than likely a "fluke". I will say this one of my fishing partners is a fly-guy and has had the same issue on that stretch of water. Maybe its time to change spots.

I used to fish the Dream Stream quite a bit until it became a zoo so my lack of fishing in the last four years has left me looking for new haunts. Perhaps I'll start moving north now that the fair weather fishing season is over.

Tight Lines and Thanks Again for making me feel welcome here.
 

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I've lived in Pueblo for a couple years now. There is a very small group of local fly fishers, and 99% of them are really cool on the water ( I could name some names of the 1% but not going to do that here). The "jerk-spawn" tends to happen in the winter when crowds from the north (Denver) come down because it is too cold to fish along the I-70 corridor. I think they're grumpy because their beloved Blue River shopping-center-Starbucks latte-fed tailwater has a dude every 20' all winter, and they bring that attitude with...
 
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