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Discussion Starter #1
CF Lurker brought a recent article in a fly fishing publication (guide advertisement magazine) to my attention as I do not subscribe to these publications. First off, they are nothing more than ads with very VERY rare article of value embedded between, yep, full page ads. The second is that these occasional articles are distorted truth and sheer guide advertisement. If you like reading them, cool, I know a lot of guys that do. I think every bathroom should be equipped with another form of paper for the worst possible scenario. When that happens, I'll burn the magazine and use the ash to get the smell off my hand. Anyhow.....

Here is the truth of Pa-Co-Chu-Puk these past years. The insiders only hangout at "Colorado's Best Kept Secret".. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..We don't want to scare the fish. lol

And in the summer when the RV park gets full, good luck!
I had a guide plunk his client 10 yards from me AT MOST one summer. What a tool of a guide! Fact is there are more and more days you will walk looking for a place to fish. Now it will just get better. Bwahahahahahaha

My favorite line is "Many browns north of 10lbs are caught every year". This actually means "a couple of the browns, caught over and over, are around 10lbs. lol

There is more and better info on these sites. You just have to have a little dedication beyond being a weekend warrior, a fair weather angler, and join into a discussion or two.

I hope people show up. Then they will realize those magazines are meant for emergency use only.

If you get tired of seeing your fishing holes publicized, I encourage you to contact the these publications and authors; most are contributors that are nobodies. Encourage others not to buy the product. This one doesn't bother me too much as it's a State Park but people are not so dumb they can't find things on their own with a bit of research. If they are, I really encourage them to stay home. It might rain and they will drown.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The readers here are not interested in your opinion of me. However, I bet they would be interested in your opinion about the incessant publication of waters. Do you have one?
 

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No one likes to see spots blown up, especially your home waters. You don't read the mags but you had to see it coming. More people, more pressure. Sorry to be a buzz kill but it's over, you can't go back.

You strike me as one of above average intelligence. You know what to do, now go. Enjoy it, get lost in it while you can
 

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Discussion Starter #5
No one likes to see spots blown up, especially your home waters. You don't read the mags but you had to see it coming. More people, more pressure. Sorry to be a buzz kill but it's over, you can't go back.

You strike me as one of above average intelligence. You know what to do, now go. Enjoy it, get lost in it while you can
Thank you. It's sad to see this done to any water. Some have been advertised for so long it no longer matters as the damage is done. If many of you could have witnessed the huge influx of people into Cheeseman Canyon in the 90's you might really want to think about what magazines (e-zines) to which you subscribe. If you could walk the banks of the South Platte, like I did, looking for fish and not a place to fish, you might want to think about what books you buy. These rivers are examples and yes there is no going back. But there are many other rivers that still exist that have yet to be advertised and the best of all worlds can be found. Paco isn't one of them either.lol CPW has a website with every public water available. Use it. When was the last time you saw an article saying "Elbow room is at a premium". What? And ruin the advertisement. LOL I just want people to understand this is no "Secret" and it gets PACKED. I have seen days at Paco where I wished I was on the Taylor in the middle of summer. At least there the people have to leave; at Paco they walk up the bank to the RV. LMAO

Well. I guess people numbers (more people, more dumb people) finally got the best of the the Toilet Bowl. Glad I got to fish it. Glad I caught that big brookie out of it too. It will be getting the fence and the No Trespassing sign before long. Guess people will have to stick to the flat and flossing spawners. No big deal. You can buy books on raping redds. lol
 

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Forgive me if I can't find anything positive to say about your stupidity.

Have you looked in the mirror lately?

Your chosen signature says a lot IMO.
 

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The glory days we will tell the younger generations about, are today, get out there. There are really no secrets left. Adapt, accept, outsmart and fish and hunt on. Its not gonna get any better than it is right now. Bitching makes it feel a little better though;D
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Forgive me if I can't find anything positive to say about your stupidity.

Have you looked in the mirror lately?

Your chosen signature says a lot IMO.
Yet again, another opinion that contributes nothing intellectually to the subject at hand. Maybe a coloring book and some crayons are more your speed; non-poisonous of course. Good luck in your endeavors.

The glory days we will tell the younger generations about, are today, get out there. There are really no secrets left. Adapt, accept, outsmart and fish and hunt on. Its not gonna get any better than it is right now. Bitching makes it feel a little better though;D
So true! "Secrets" is a catch word but there are "lesser known waters".

"Glory Days" are everyday you can take a healthy breath. Some days are better than others, some years are better that others. I'm not thinking about myself. I've been there and done it with a very short bucket list on hand. We look back on the path we carved to help guide us in the direction we're headed. Looking back allows us to reflect on some ideals that are worthy of being taken into the future.

I am the first to say we can not stop growth and I am the first to say "I want growth". Without growth economies become stagnant and contract. What I am also saying is that there are two ways we can get to 'crowded' on our public lands, fast or paced. I prefer paced so that your kids, or yourself, will have the opportunity and freedom to enjoy these waters with some room to breath and explore. And don't get me wrong. I don't place the blame on any publication but none of them help one bit; especially when they are misleading and/or give detailed directions to lesser waters. Horrible HORRIBLE IMO.

What would happen if the state came out with a fishing license point system to ease crowding? Some waters you might draw every year while others may take +20. How about having to call and make a reservation for a high mountain lakes and streams? Sounds absurd I know. This is what people thought when it was implemented in hunting. Is that not what we do? Hunt fish? Granted the human inflicted mortality rates are different in a k and r select species but hunting licenses get capped so that there are fewer people despite specific herds being able to handle more people. CPW does this to insure a "quality" hunt (laughable if your a hunter) while still maintaining revenue. "Quality fishing"? Will it come to this? Who knows. I don't want to see it but this is the road we are on. Think what you may. When the complaints of massive overcrowding start hitting the ears of those that make decisions, decisions will be made. Nobody can keep you from walking the banks, but Gov can limit and regulate other recreational aspects. Fly and Lure Only; Catch and Release; Open and Closing dates (season); hours of operations...just some of these regulatory initiatives. Frankly we are all spoiled in Colorado, some more than others:tongue:

So we can refuse to buy into the private advertisement of our public waters and do a small part in reducing the speed of the free fall into crowding or continue to support the advertisement of lesser known areas and risk the spur of the moment freedom and definitely lose any elbow room. If it's all about catching a fish for you, give it time and your position will change, I will almost guarantee it. By the time you realize what you are really enjoying out there it may be gone. The fish will be there but take a number and stand in line instead of casting one.

Weird forum. I really thought this would get some feedback.
 

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Complaining to a public fishing forum full of strangers that your favorite place is full of strangers, who most likely found it on a public fishing forum, probably isn't going to accomplish much of what you said you're looking to do-which I thiiiiink was not publicize your favorite spot...i'm reading this from the toilet, btw, it's about as entertaining as one of those silly magazines you speak of, carry on!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
you're looking to do-which I thiiiiink was not publicize your favorite spot...i'm reading this from the toilet, btw, it's about as entertaining as one of those silly magazines you speak of, carry on!
Must have been a quick one. Your response tells me you didn't read.

More beneficial information for beginners can be on found on forums than in 20 years of fishing magazines and for the most part only well known locations are mentioned. Why? I think every angler that visits this site should have free and easy access to all information. In fact, why not a sticky "Colorado's Rivers, Streams, and Lakes: All you need to know". Its post count/visitation ratio would be a tell all.

I'll share a personal experience as it might help the reader to understand my thoughts. Life has afforded me a chance to rediscover many places my dad and uncle had taken me to fish and hunt as a kid. While hunting one year I decided to take a look at a creek that was shown on a map. Not like its miles off the beaten path; just a relatively short walk from a dirt road. When I saw it I knew there was fish in it. Went back that spring armed with the fly rod and reel. What a day. I caught some beautiful fish and some surprisingly big ones for the water. Eager. Didn't matter what hit the water. If a fish could hold there, a fish was there. I never told a soul about this place, never even mentioned it in passing, and in two years of occasionally fishing it I never saw one shred of evidence that anyone else fished it. Now, I'm positive there are others because as stated, "There are no 'secrets'".

At a fly fishing club meeting one winter, the local biologist gave a presentation. He was discussing a new broodery for some rare fish. Biologists had found a population and used it to get the first generation of brooders for that future natural hatchery. Turns out that the creek I was fishing was the originating waters for milt and eggs for the first generation of brooders. When I spoke with the biologist he was amazed we never crossed paths but apart from his crew he never saw anyone either.

This happenstance changed my perception about publicizing water. What if I mentioned this creek at the shop? Would that population have been in a condition to collect milt and eggs after more people fished it? I mean the chance to catch wild native reproducing fish is not common these days. As it stands, it's still open but few know about it. I even quit fishing it. Now this is no Paco or Arkansas, not a Yellowstone or Mile, and a far cry from a Boca Grande or the Keys, but a public fishery nonetheless. If the location got out, I know for fact a population of anglers would swarm the creek.

"What if" for the cost of $6 or maybe $39.95 I sold that location and others? What then would you think? The word is out on all those aforementioned fisheries so it's not like anyone would pay for common information. So the press for newer fisheries to be talked about is necessary to keep sales up or just to make a personal buck (in some cases a "name" for one's self). It's the right for anyone to do so, I respect that. It's also my right to encourage not to buy into it. I'm only selling an opinion not a magazine, a book, or location.

I'm being fully honest here and not just writing what you want to read. You may not like my opinion, so convince me otherwise.
 

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Your response tells me you didn't read.

It's also my right to encourage not to buy into it. I'm only selling an opinion not a magazine, a book, or location.
Read the whole thing! There's nothing wrong with a rant, I still ain't buying what you're selling though. Maybe you should take advantage of some of this nice weather we've been having and go fish...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
One day you may change your mind. I look back and wished I would have changed mine earlier.

I did go fishing. I can fish whenever I like. In fact, I may here in a bit for an hour or two. Have new midge pattern that I'm itching to drift.

Regards,
Slab
 

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One of the great things I learned on this forum is how important different bodies of water are to different individuals. And because of that, to respect them all by not hot spotting.

It's unfortunate when publications that should know this, either don't acknowledge it or merely ignore it in order to get a click or sell a magazine. I have had this exact thing happen to one of my favorite sections of river- did a bunch of research and looking at maps, only to see an article on it a year later in a magazine. It felt cheap given the amount of research I had to do in order to find it.

What can ya do? This site is pretty good at making individuals think twice about hot spotting, lest they be chastised.

I wish I was around back when Geirach first started writing about the Cheese, Platte etc. Or when my Dad and Uncle would "knock 'em dead" up in North Park or the canyon. I did stumble across some pretty awesome pictures of my Grandpa and his brothers back in the day when the canyon road was still dirt and they would stay up at Sportsmen's or the Trading Post.

Anyway, I think my take on it is to remain ignorant to some of the hot spotting, meaning avoiding exploiter- man, that name can be pretty damn fitting, right? And to try and walk a little further and maybe fish a little smaller streams and creeks. I like catching pigs, but I don't drive into the mountains to stand next to some jabroni.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
And to try and walk a little further and maybe fish a little smaller streams and creeks. I like catching pigs, but I don't drive into the mountains to stand next to some jabroni.
Amen brother. As more and more places fill up, people, such as ourselves, are forced deeper and deeper into the back country more regularly in search of what we enjoy. In return, we anglers start impacting the fishing there. Before long word gets out on those back country oases and then, if the area is really unlucky, it gets published. It becomes the slow or fast circling of the drain and our actions decide which one.

P.S. Any good this last summer on those lakes? I do miss the still water species diversity.:frown: That is one thing about where you live. You can catch wipers in the am and be casting for cutts by noon.

I know this is a touchy topic on this forum. I've read the posts about people complaining about there not being enough "info", just bragging. I just apply the same "no location" sentiment to published advertisement. Be a student of the water and you'll always be able to walk the walk; be a student of an ad and you'll talk the talk. I hear the talk all the time. lol. Fly angler education comes from those lean days not the epic ones.

Slab
 

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Great point about the lean days being more telling than the great ones.

I have hit one of the lakes that we discussed, just enough to put eyes on it and realize I need some more weedless top water variety and something like a geezus lizard. Can't wait for warm water and shoulder season trout...planning my trip to pa co chu puk along with everyone else!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Great point about the lean days being more telling than the great ones.

I have hit one of the lakes that we discussed, just enough to put eyes on it and realize I need some more weedless top water variety and something like a geezus lizard. Can't wait for warm water and shoulder season trout...planning my trip to pa co chu puk along with everyone else!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
LOL.

I used to throw a weedless lizard in assorted colors. About as easy a tie as they come. If you want the pattern just PM me and I'll send you some picks.
 
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