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Should the Division Of Wildlife eliminate the overlap of archery & muzzleloader elk season?

  • No, I Like Archery & Muzzleloading Happening At The Same Time

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, I Think They Should Have Muzzleloader BEFORE Archery

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, I Think They Should Have Muzzleloader AFTER Archery

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I Don't Hunt So Who Cares?

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Leave it alone. They have co-existed long enough and I don't think it there have been many problems... That said, what is your position?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oyey said:
Leave it alone. They have co-existed long enough and I don't think it there have been many problems... That said, what is your position?
Oyey, It is my opinion and that of an increasingly overwhelming majority of both archers and muzzleloaders I have met in the field, restuarant, sporting goods store, etc. that they should be separated. In my observations as both a private hunter and professional guide I have seen a shift in use patterns and hunting styles of both archers and muzzleloader hunters over the last decade or better. I hear alot of frustration from both groups. I think it would serve to enhance the experience of both groups to have the seasons separated just as most if not all other western states do. While I in principle have nothing against muzzleloaders or the hunters who choose to hunt with them(I am saving elk preference points right now for a muzzleloader hunt) I do think that thanks to many advancements in muzzleloader technology(including bullets/powder/etc.) we now have what is practically tantamount to a modern rifle hunting season running concurrently with archery season and I don't see it working out as well as it could for either group. If need be I would have to say I would even be willing to give up some of my archery season duration to accomodate a separate muzzleloader hunt. I am currently laying the groundwork for a far-reaching letter campaign to the wildlife commision requesting they separate the seasons. All opinions are appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
solesearcher34 said:
Oyey said:
Leave it alone. They have co-existed long enough and I don't think it there have been many problems... That said, what is your position?
Oyey, It is my opinion and that of an increasingly overwhelming majority of both archers and muzzleloaders I have met in the field, restuarant, sporting goods store, etc. that they should be separated. In my observations as both a private hunter and professional guide I have seen a shift in use patterns and hunting styles of both archers and muzzleloader hunters over the last decade or better. I hear alot of frustration from both groups. I think it would serve to enhance the experience of both groups to have the seasons separated just as most if not all other western states do. While I in principle have nothing against muzzleloaders or the hunters who choose to hunt with them(I am saving elk preference points right now for a muzzleloader hunt) I do think that thanks to many advancements in muzzleloader technology(including bullets/powder/etc.) we now have what is practically tantamount to a modern rifle hunting season running concurrently with archery season and I don't see it working out as well as it could for either group. If need be I would have to say I would even be willing to give up some of my archery season duration to accomodate a separate muzzleloader hunt. I am currently laying the groundwork for a far-reaching letter campaign to the wildlife commision requesting they separate the seasons. All opinions are appreciated.
With the above having been said, I would love to hear from some muzzleloader hunters that support separation of the seasons as to whether they would like to hunt before or after the archers and why. Both options in my mind have their pluses and minuses. If you have muzzleloader BEFORE archery you invariably would experience less of the rut but not have the disruption of two weeks of archers pushing the elk around the mountain.

If you have muzzleloader AFTER archery you have animals that have been pushed hard by the archers but are more likely to be in the rut.

I do think the DOW would have to reduce muzzleloader tag allotments if they held muzzleloader AFTER archery thanks to a drastically enhanced success rate do to the vulnerability of bulls in rut. This would result in less opportunity for muzzy hunters to draw a license. Heck I would be the first one to lay down my bow and apply for a muzzy tag if that were the case. If they had it BEFORE archery I would expect muzzleloaders to enjoy at least as high if not higher success rates than they currently do thanks to reduced interference by competing bowhunters.
 

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Interesting... I have been out of touch for a while... I was walking around the archery range yesterday and just JONESIN to cast an arrow!
 

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I don't have an issue with the way it is now. It allows the wife and I to hunt together ( her muzzy, me bow) I hunt a somewhat popular area and have only ever had one encounter with a muzzy hunter while I was archery hunting and they killed the Bull I was bugling with but I have no ill feelings for them.

One thing to think about as well in coming up with your decision- Which season will be shortened if they are separated? Archery or Muzzy? One of them will have to be.

Brett
 

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I archery hunt and I wouldn't change a thing. I don't want archery season any shorter, and I don't have a problem hunting with muzzy hunters. On a few occasions I've had muzzleloaders push elk my way, I've learned to use them to my advantage.
 

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Oyey said:
Leave it alone. They have co-existed long enough and I don't think there have been many
problems...
Oyey and I agree on some things--Like this and that the fact that the tax system is as ridiculous as the appropriators who are racking up government debt at a rate that no household would consider sane.

solesearcher34, you made mention of the advancement in muzzleloader technology, but not of the advancement in archery technology. People are now taking shots with their compound bows and carbon arrows that would have been unthinkable years ago.
 

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Yes!!! I am a die hard archery hunter and would love to see archery have a season entirely to ourselves. And while they're at it take out the rifle cow only tags in Sept.!!! I was lucky enough to take a bull this year with my bow but I have had many years I've gone without, that being said I could have filled nearly every year with a smoke pole. I quit rifle hunting because of the ease, we have too many things working against us as archery guys and to be honest the majority of my run ins with muzzleloaders were negative. Just my opinion but they have it the best; perfect time of year(peak rut) and a lot longer range than I've got. I hope this doesn't come off as whiney cause that's why I archery hunt, the challenge.
 

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I forgot to add what I would do with the seasons were it up to me, granted a biased system. I would put smoke pole guys in the first rifle season and do away with it for rifle guys while still allowing them 2-3 seasons depending on the unit. I wouldn't change archery season. just my 2 cents but how long do you really need to kill an elk with a rifle? Get out of the truck already! Just kidding ;)
 

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My vote is to separate them - but it wont ever happen - its a money thing with the CDOW

There is two weeks of not any elk hunting between the end of archery and 1st Rifle - They could easily add a 5 or 7 or 9 day hunt in that time.
Th muzzleloaders now are like rifles, I know, I have 2.

The ML season is already a draw system - just move the dates

I would rather prefer a Resident only season...

My .02
 

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cnelk said:
The muzzleloaders now are like rifles...
And today's compound bows with their sighting systems, stabilizers, silencers, and carbon arrows are now like muzzleloaders in my opinion.

Not too many Fred Bears out there any more...

We've always heard that the West wasn't won with bows and arrows. I think it might have been with today's bows and arrows.
 

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No offense sswan but you have clearly never shot both a new compound and a new muzzle loader. While I agree the technology on todays bows is pretty amazing compared to 10-15 years ago its still a bow versus what in essence is a slower rifle(but not by much). Your're talking about a 250 grain bullet going 2300 fps out of todays muzzle loaders, not much slower than a 30/06 shooting a 220 grain bullet only 200 fps faster. Versus a souped up bow real world velocity at 290-320 fps. Not accounting for the vastly more difficult task of accurately shooting a bow vs. a rifle. Not even close and I'm sure old Fred Bear would argue the same.
 

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ptaft said:
No offense sswan but you have clearly never shot both a new compound and a new muzzle loader.
As I saw posted a while back by another forum member, "You say that like you know me." Clearly, you don't.
 

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I WOULD TO SEE MUZZLE LOADERS HAVE THEIR OWN SEASON AFTER ARCHERY...ALSO I THINK ARCHERY SHOULD START THE FIRST WEEKEND OF SEPTEMBER AND END THE LAST WEEKEND OF SEPTEMBER BECAUSE THAT OPENING WEEKEND IS HOT AND THE ELK ARE NOT EVEN TALKING....ALSO FOR THE ARCHERY HUNTERS THAT HUNT PUBLIC LAND HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THE LABOR DAY WEEKEND CROWD WHO DRIVE ALL OVER MOUNTAINS WITH THEIR ATVS...IF YOU LOOK AT SEASONS THAT THE BOSQUE DEL OSO HAVE MUZZLELOADERS DO NOT INTERFERE WITH ARCHERY HUNTERS...THEY SHOULD AT LEAST DO THAT FOR EVERY UNIT.
 

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Intersetingly a muzzleloader tag in the area I hunt has become much more difficult to draw in the last few years. Others have told me the same of other areas. I would hate to see that become even more difficult to acquire.

As far as separating them, I don't agree. Most blackpowder guys are after the same thing the bow guys are. Solitude chasing elk in the early season. I see more non-residents getting black powder tags and bringing that group/march/pushing style of hunting to the mountains. Which is probably one of the things a lot of archers dislike, hell it pisses me off to. Do guys really need to fire their rifle and the end of each day...... (sarcasm)

I like hunting the rut. I don't make the time the rest of the year to shoot a bow and be a competent shot. I don't think I could shoot a bow 2 weeks out of the year and go into the hills flinging arrows and reamin ehtical.

More people, less room - welcome to our future
 

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I like them both at the same time. I usually muzzy but, took up archey because I didn't draw a muzzy tag. That being said. Some in my group had Muzzy tags and some archery tags and we were able to keep our group intact. I only bumped into one group of muzzy hunters in a week of hunting and I liked that fact because that they pushed a bull towards me as they made a lot of noise. But, I guess if you hunt only Acrhery or only hunt Muzzleloader and hunt with a group that maintains one type of hunting then I guess you would want the woods to yourself and your type of hunting. Lastly, I didn't hear a shot all week long...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I do agree with some of what sswan said in regards to bow technology but I can assure you from what I have seen it has not changed to near the degree that muzzleloaders have. The main advancements in archery technology as it affects archers in the field are 1. ease of tuning and 2. a flatter trajectory at traditional ranges Canvas the web for successful reports over the last ten years or so and I think you will find that most guys are not shooting much if any greater distances for their bow kills. The great handicap for archers is having to draw the bow at just the right time in order to make a shot. After guiding archers and muzzleloaders on the same ground...pursuing the same elk I can tell you having to draw your bow is the single largest defining difference. There is a reason why for that 11 years my muzzleloader bull hunters had 100% shot success on bulls. They are already aiming at the bull when he walks in and all they have to do is take it off safety and squeeze the trigger. More bulls get a free pass because an archer gets busted drawing or can't hold long enough at draw than any other thing in my experience. Or you are not able to draw soon enough and the bull is out of your shooting lane before you can draw.(this saved a nice 6x6 from my arrow just a few days ago). With a muzzleloader in my hand I could have enjoyed a 100% success rate on bulls provided I did not pass too many smaller legal bulls. Thinking back, there has not been a year when I couldn't have taken a P&Y class or better bull at 80 yards or less had I been carrying a smokepole. As long as you still have to manually draw and hold the bow with two hands, the advancements will NEVER be equivocal. Year in and year out, the majority of my muzzleloading clients had opportunity to kill bulls the first day of their hunt. Throughout the years my muzzleloading clients had an average shot distance of 17 yards.....just one yard further than my archery clients average shot. I am always mindboggled by why the muzzleloader success rates aren't higher on bull elk.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
ArtCo said:
I like them both at the same time. I usually muzzy but, took up archey because I didn't draw a muzzy tag. That being said. Some in my group had Muzzy tags and some archery tags and we were able to keep our group intact. I only bumped into one group of muzzy hunters in a week of hunting and I liked that fact because that they pushed a bull towards me as they made a lot of noise. But, I guess if you hunt only Acrhery or only hunt Muzzleloader and hunt with a group that maintains one type of hunting then I guess you would want the woods to yourself and your type of hunting. Lastly, I didn't hear a shot all week long...
I can appreciate your angle as a "mixed group" for sure.....no reason comraderie can't exist between the two groups. I don't believe I have ever had a "negative" run-in with a muzzleloader hunter in the woods other than them spooking elk with their hunting style and plenty of bowhunters have pushed elk by getting on the wrong side of the wind. My idead of a successful "interlude" with a bull in archery season is that regardless of a shot opportunity I don't do anything to "push" the bull out of his pattern. If I accomplish that I have been successful. I too did not hear a shot the entire last weekend and their were muzzleloaders in my area. We could have killed bulls on at least 8 of the 9 days of our hunt with muzzleloaders though. I can tell you that my friends had been hunting the same 5 bulls in a basin on the uncomphagre from the start of the season until opening morning of muzzy season. Then....a single shot from a muzzy hunter in that basin(at a cow) and every one of the 5 bulls departed the basin never to return during archery season. That alone tells me we need to separate it there, but it would never be feasible to separate it unit-by-unit.
 
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