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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Guys,

This is a link to a short video of a recent trip I made to see if I could find some rather rare Rio Grande Cutthroat trout in Southwest Colorado. These beautiful fish are only found in approximately 15% of their original range in Southern Colorado and Northern New Mexico.

Video Link:


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According to your 1st post you went looking for them. I didn't say it was illegal. Just not ethical for an endangered fish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
According to your 1st post you went looking for them. I didn't say it was illegal. Just not ethical for an endangered fish.
These fish are not listed as endangered or on the verge extinction. They are actively managed to ensure their viability and availability for Anglers to catch and release. Its likely the fish I caught 6 years ago were stocked as this particular stream is not particularly far from a forest service CG. Read article
 

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Some nice video work. Just like the Greenback cutthroat which can now be caught throughout waters in the state, there is no ethical issue with catch and release fishing for the Rio Grande cutthroat. As the article you link states, the Rio Grande species has been re-established in Colorado waters for nearly two decades now. Hence, there is no threat to the secured population of the fish from conscientious catch and release fishing.

I wish you would have left out the comment about "spin fisherman," though. I'm a fly fisherman, but I learned to fish on a spin rod in rivers. I'm not sure what makes you think small creeks aren't the proper venue for spin fishermen but lakes are. You don't really specify, but "spin fisherman" could mean what many fly fisherman call "gear fisherman," most often associated with things like casting bait such as worms and powerbait. Not sure what kind of fishing you are poo-pooing, but if it's genuinely "spin fishing," that is, with a "spinner," I don't see the reason for the condemnation or jab.

Spinners weren't originally designed for spin rods because they predate the modern spin rod and reel; one of the spinner's first applications was actually brought into use by innovative fly fisherman who began experimenting with small flashing blades on flies and then migrated to all balsa and metal sans any of the thread, feathers, chenille, lacquer, etc of traditionally tied flies. For a time in the early 20th century, fly fishing a spinner and learning to drift it into a pool was considered an extremely skillful, clever and very sporting method once mastered.

So why bash on "spin fisherman" unless they were violating the regulations, or being jerks by encroaching on your fishing spot? If lures are legal on a water, they're just as legal as flies themselves, and just as ethical. In some ways, lures are more sporting because they do not imitate the trout's food source, but rather depend on the trout's instinctive reaction to reflection and movement. Many studies have been done on the frequency with which trout in the same conditions will hit a spinner versus those that will hit a fly skillfully presented -- the fly is by far the more successful method to induce a strike.

If the spin fisherman you chastised were breaking the regulations of that water, or being disrespectful of the stream, habitat or fish, then certainly they need rebuked. Otherwise, your tone of superiority is really unnecessary and unwarranted, and perpetuates the high horse, elitist, holier than thou reputation of snooty fly fishermen. That kind of divisiveness isn't productive or positive, and it simply creates unnecessary animosity.

Thanks for posting your video. I look forward to more of your content minus the stereotyping and judgy-ness.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Some nice video work. Just like the Greenback cutthroat which can now be caught throughout waters in the state, there is no ethical issue with catch and release fishing for the Rio Grande cutthroat. As the article you link states, the Rio Grande species has been re-established in Colorado waters for nearly two decades now. Hence, there is no threat to the secured population of the fish from conscientious catch and release fishing.

I wish you would have left out the comment about "spin fisherman," though. I'm a fly fisherman, but I learned to fish on a spin rod in rivers. I'm not sure what makes you think small creeks aren't the proper venue for spin fishermen but lakes are. You don't really specify, but "spin fisherman" could mean what many fly fisherman call "gear fisherman," most often associated with things like casting bait such as worms and powerbait. Not sure what kind of fishing you are poo-pooing, but if it's genuinely "spin fishing," that is, with a "spinner," I don't see the reason for the condemnation or jab.

Spinners weren't originally designed for spin rods because they predate the modern spin rod and reel; one of the spinner's first applications was actually brought into use by innovative fly fisherman who began experimenting with small flashing blades on flies and then migrated to all balsa and metal sans any of the thread, feathers, chenille, lacquer, etc of traditionally tied flies. For a time in the early 20th century, fly fishing a spinner and learning to drift it into a pool was considered an extremely skillful, clever and very sporting method once mastered.

So why bash on "spin fisherman" unless they were violating the regulations, or being jerks by encroaching on your fishing spot? If lures are legal on a water, they're just as legal as flies themselves, and just as ethical. In some ways, lures are more sporting because they do not imitate the trout's food source, but rather depend on the trout's instinctive reaction to reflection and movement. Many studies have been done on the frequency with which trout in the same conditions will hit a spinner versus those that will hit a fly skillfully presented -- the fly is by far the more successful method to induce a strike.

If the spin fisherman you chastised were breaking the regulations of that water, or being disrespectful of the stream, habitat or fish, then certainly they need rebuked. Otherwise, your tone of superiority is really unnecessary and unwarranted, and perpetuates the high horse, elitist, holier than thou reputation of snooty fly fishermen. That kind of divisiveness isn't productive or positive, and it simply creates unnecessary animosity.

Thanks for posting your video. I look forward to more of your content minus the stereotyping and judgy-ness.
I appreciate your thoughtful comments, Melvin.

Spin fishing to me means using spinning reels & rods…

I started out spin fishing myself, so I don’t think im above anyone. Im a regular guy who grew up in a hardworking blue collar/middle class family and town back East….

I was not about to check to see what this group of anglers were using although it looked like spinners and spoons. They did manage to get a few and kept them, which again is their right. I will however absolutely and 100% stand by what I said that I don’t get why 6 guys in a group would want to fish a tiny stream and a small pool like that. Maybe If you saw the diminutive size of the pool im referring too (Im talking 10 to 11 feet across, maybe 18 inches deep, tops) you might better understand why I don’t get it. That’s my opinion, nothing else. I absolutely get its their right to do so, and I was not about to rebuke or confront them even though one guy came within 15 yards of me at one point which I thought was a little to close considering there was plenty of open stream to fish.

I don’t feel its my place to rebuke, chastise, or educate other anglers even though I have had some ridiculous encounters over the years that certainly would have warranted it. I will go out on limb and say that in my experience there is a common-sense fishing etiquette gap out there…Ray
 

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Part of the reason they're only in 15% of our waters.

Why not leave them alone?
You missed the PITA meeting last night, Pete...or as Peter Griffin calls himself, "Pita"...

This attitude is why this site is dead compared to the old days when I was an active member, or compared to the forum I visit where I live now, which is the exact same format.
 

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So much misinformation! The greenback is only present in 11 miles of streams in Colorado. The "greenback" that has been reestablished for the last several decades is now known to NOT be the greenback at all! New study shows greenback cutthroat trout inv | EurekAlert! By the way, the cutthroat trout is only one species. The different "varieties" are considered sub-species. If you want to spit hairs, there are probably genetic differences between fish from different drainages assuming some degree of isolation and the abscence of stocking from hatchery stocks.
In fact, there are very few pure cutthroat trout left, as their ancestors have, at one time or another, interbred with rainbows which are an invasive species which was introduced by our very own wildlife department. A good example of fisheries management gone bad is Trappers Lake. The original cutthroats have interbred with rainbows (I once caught a rainbow from Trappers, so they do still exist)
and I believe are considered "C-grade". These "C-grade fish are being slowly reduced in number by the invasive brook trout which were introduced by....TaDa! You guessed it. Our very own wildlife department! Now management has done a 180 and is trying to reinstate cutthroats and other native species. An example is the massive program, aided by the Federal Government, to eliminate invasive game fish species (smallmouth bass, pike, channel catfish) to save the squawfish. Don't want to open a can of worms, but how about wolf reintroduction? I am neutral (Is that possible?) on all of this but just wanted to point out that things have now turned full circle. I think we will just have to accept the results whatever they may be!
 
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