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It was suggested on another thread that an individual should go fish a certain section of the Colorado river. That section of the river would require an individual to tresspass on private property, one being a local landowner and the second being the Union Pacific Railroad.

DON'T TRESSPASS ON RAILROAD PROPERTY TO FISH OR HUNT. Or any other private property for that matter.

Due to the Homeland security stuff, the Railroad's and the Federal Government are on alert wathcing for tresspassers. If you are spotted on or near Railroad property you will be reported and you will be ARRESTED and charged with a FEDERAL FELONY. Interstate railroads are under federal law and you would be charged accordingly. So don't do it.

Additionally, on behalf of the guys working those trains, they don't want to run your ass over either, so don't do it. There are plenty of other places to fish.
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Thanks for the info...a couple of weeks ago I was up by Parshal. They were doing some track replacement north of the road. When I drove over the crossing to go into National Forest, I noticed there was the standard fixed track on the ties, then there were rails laying on each side of the track (not sure if they were the new rails or the old ones - seamless and curvy and appeared to go on for miles). Was pretty cool looking and was thinking of getting out to take a picture. Didn't realize they are getting so strict...good thing I didn't stop to take the picture (not sure why I didn't at the time).
 
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I don't think stopping to snap a quick photo would get a person in trouble but being in an area accessible only by private property certainly would. The location that was mentioned is so clearly private that anyone would know they are tresspassing. First you pass right through a private ranch, right by his barns and home and under his ranch sign. Hmmm, first hint?? Second you have to go through locked gates or through a fence to the Railroad property. Hmm,, second hint?? Ignore the no tresspassing signs and fish the river. 20 years ago a fisherman was struck and killed by the train at that spot,, not good to go there. I know the land owner, he's a great guy but tresspassers piss all landowners off.

If a guy wants to get into this area, float a canoe or kayak down river from Kremmling. But remeber you have to paddle back up.
 

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Laker,
My neighbor is a lawyer and a big time hunter that took a similar case to court and won. In his case he ID'ed a piece of public land that was surrounded by private land...all access avenues were posted as Private, No Tresspassing. He pulled old aerial photos of the area before all the private ranches popped up and found an old public access road to the public land. He approached the private land owner to request access via what was formerly a public road to public property. Admittedly the road had been grown over with weeks and grass but it was established as a public road. The landowner denied him access. In court the judge granted my neighbor access siting an old law created in the early 1900's. My neighbor cannot go off that road until he gets on public property but he did get access to the land.
 

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setthehook said:
Laker,
My neighbor is a lawyer and a big time hunter that took a similar case to court and won. 
   
   
setthehook -- The case you referred to is interesting.  Part of what makes that situation interesting is that the facts are unusual.  Those same unusual facts (namely a public road easement b/c of pre-existing, long-established public road access) make it different from what laker taker is referring to (I think). 
     
     
 
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Discussion Starter #8
I agree. Railroad Right of Way is something you don't want to mess with. The railroad also enjoys lots of Federal priviliges and rights that you don't want to mess with. It's kind of like getting caught for speeding on a military installation - it's a Federal offense!
 

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Mr. Ed said:
I agree.  Railroad Right of Way is something you don't want to mess with.  The railroad also enjoys lots of Federal priviliges and rights that you don't want to mess with.  It's kind of like getting caught for speeding on a military installation - it's a Federal offense!
Note: I check maps/related info prior to going to a location to confirm its ownership status, albeit, we are all relying on maps that are old and out of date. I have been known to check out plat maps at county courthouses to ensure I am on public land. Plus, I *always* ask permission to go onto private land or I don't go on it.

That said...

Since it's a Federal offense on federal property, what authority would need to physically come out and cite? Or is there no necessity to physically come out? Would just a phone call report suffice?

And doesn't the landowner need to show up in court? Or, at least, the landowner's agent, maybe a lawyer?

And, if that's the case, doesn't it cost at least a few (most likely more than a few) bucks, not counting lost work, for the landowner/agent to follow through with the trial?

Plus, what happens and who pays when the authorities are called, come out and noone's there to cite?

And is it just the word of the landowner or is evidence of criminal trespass necessary to prove trespass, e.g., video or photos, etc.?

All this above is separate from the procedures and penalties, etc, for DOW, if hunting/fishing is involved.

It all seems like more of a deterrence situation than an actual court situation, doesn't it?
 
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Discussion Starter #10
rstrouts said:
Since it's a Federal offense on federal property, what authority would need to physically come out and cite? Or is there no necessity to physically come out? Would just a phone call report suffice?
The local Sherriff. Then, the railroad police would also get involved (they have their own branch). Possibly, the DOW will get involved as well.

And doesn't the landowner need to show up in court? Or, at least, the landowner's agent, maybe a lawyer?
This is a legal matter not a civil matter. The landowner does not need to show up.

And, if that's the case, doesn't it cost at least a few (most likely more than a few) bucks, not counting lost work, for the landowner/agent to follow through with the trial?
Landowner doesn't need to be there - the arresting officer does.

Plus, what happens and who pays when the authorities are called, come out and noone's there to cite?
Taxpayers like you and me. No different than if someone tries to break into your house, and runs off while you're on the phone with 911.

And is it just the word of the landowner or is evidence of criminal trespass necessary to prove trespass, e.g., video or photos, etc.?
If you are caught, you're caught.

It all seems like more of a deterrence situation than an actual court situation, doesn't it?
Not really, think of it as for your safety...if you show up to hunt waterfowl, and you have a shotgun in hand, there is a "Make my Day" law that allows the landowner to shoot you if you are percieved to be a threat. You could argue you weren't, but that would be tough to do when you're 6 feet under.

What's wrong with respecting private property?
 

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I gotta say this, not to excuse my recommendation... I didn't think it out.

Back when I fished it, I did so with a buddy who worked for DOT, driving County maintained roads to determine whether they were maintained well enough for federal/state funding (a public road for tax assistance). At that time, the road to the parking area was one of those roads, and that is how he founf the spot, don't know the status now. It was a heavily fished area back then also.

I am embarassed, and would NEVER intentionally suggest someone trespass. But, I did make the statement, and sincerely appreciate the comments. I would have felt terrible if I steered someone into a situation where they broke any law.

Keep on keeping it honest!

pappy
 

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Not really, think of it as for your safety...if you show up to hunt waterfowl, and you have a shotgun in hand, there is a "Make my Day" law that allows the landowner to shoot you if you are percieved to be a threat. You could argue you weren't, but that would be tough to do when you're 6 feet under.
"Make My Day" only applies when someone is intruding or has intruded in your home. The law does not apply if someone is on your property. i.e. you can't shoot someone because they are trespassing on your property even if you feel "threatened" unless there is some sort of tangible threat

Dan.
 

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funny that were talking about this
one of my relatives just had to pay a fine a few months back for walking the river to a hole and fishing it
the land owner saw them and called the cops and had them sited for tresspassing

with the river being dry or low right now the land is owned by the farmer

but my relative might get the last word in when it comes to this land owner that turned them if for fishing

the land owner was pumping water out of the river with gas pumps
and my reative was thinking of turning them in to the kansas water board for stealing there water
 
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Discussion Starter #14
No problem Pappy, the location that was referred to was a popular fishing spot and put-in spot for rafters and kayakers,,,, until someone got nailed by a 35 mph train several years ago. Most people have no idea that Railroad property is private property. With the advent of the homeland security stuff the railroads are on high alert for trespassers of any type.

My neighbor is a lawyer and a big time hunter that took a similar case to court and won.  In his case he ID'ed a piece of public land that was surrounded by private land...all access avenues were posted as Private, No Tresspassing.  He pulled old aerial photos of the area before all the private ranches popped up and found an old public access road to the public land.  He approached the private land owner to request access via what was formerly a public road to public property.  Admittedly the road had been grown over with weeks and grass but it was established as a public road.  The landowner denied him access.  In court the judge granted my neighbor access siting an old law created in the early 1900's.  My neighbor cannot go off that road until he gets on public property but he did get access to the land.

That is an interesting case, and in this particular location there is a county road going to the ranchers property but I highly doubt the road gave access to the very tiny piece of BLM land (which happens to be an island in the middle of the river) prior to the D.&S.L. railroad claiming eminent domain of the property in the late 1800's.

Bottom line, I wouldn't tresspass on railroad property now that homeland security is a priority. The railroad is not an entity anyone wants to mess with.
 
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Dan said:
"Make My Day" only applies when someone is intruding or has intruded in your home. The law does not apply if someone is on your property. i.e. you can't shoot someone because they are trespassing on your property even if you feel "threatened" unless there is some sort of tangible threat
Dan, suspicion of criminal intent is all that is needed. If you live on the property, or if it is your place of business, you are covered under the law (the key is the reference to §18-1-704)....some reading that may change your perspective...

A copy of the law...
http://www.co.jefferson.co.us/jeffco/sheriff_uploads/revised_statutes.htm

Newspaper articles...
http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1313093&secid=1
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E0DA1638F931A25752C1A9659C8B63&fta=y
http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20060123/COLUMS/101230030&SearchID=7324839073168

Either way, I don't want to be on the bad end of that argument. I see no reason not to respect private property rights.
 

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So, I've heard the only way to access the Fraser River north of Tabernash is to park, walk the railroad tracks, and then fish. Now if I do, I will be thrown in a federal prison? Glad I never attemped it!
 
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Discussion Starter #17
So, I've heard the only way to access the Frazier River north of Tabernash is to park, walk the railroad tracks, and then fish.
There are three ways to access the Frasier between Granby and Tabernash.
1. Walk the rails, which is trespassing.
2. There is a private road to a small group of privately owned cabins in the canyon. Unathorized access without the landowner permission would be trespassing.
3. Hang-glide or parachute. Of course you would end up on either Railroad property or Andreen's property so your still trespassing.

Don't worry, I've fished the **** out of that canyon and it's not that great of fishing.
Only 5 pound brookies. >:D
(not really)
 

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Can you float this stretch?
 
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Can you float this stretch?
If you have a boat that drafts less than 6 inches of water. The frasier can get pretty shallow in several spots.
 

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LT do you work for the RR because you seem to know alot about it just curious. I'm no to sure about RR police or officials enforcing tresspassing laws because tracks have been mine and about 2000 other pheasant hunters hot spots for many years. I've spent countless days hunting tracks in colorado, kansas and nebraska and the only thing that a RR employee has done is waive, heck last year a track crew that a walked up on outside of Yuma gave me some pointers where they where seeing birds. I'm not advocating to people to hunt or fish by access of RR property and maybe I've just been lucky but my expereinces have never been bad. Also my father worked for the BN for 35 years just recently retired knew the special investigators and said they where not the most motivated department but then again he also stated there where over all not to many motivated departments. Now that I'm thinking about it a Sheriff stopped as I was coming off some tracks outside of Wray last year and shot the breeze with me about 15 min about the Quail hunting. Who knows maybe I've just been lucky and and I would hate to see someone get in trouble and maybe I haven't because I've been in such rural places
 
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