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Discussion Starter #1
I don't mean to ruffle more feathers here, but how many of you know that the Rainbow Trout of Lee's Ferry are being slaughtered and thrown onto the banks by the recovery program, where endangered fish are virtually extirpated (wiped out from the region).
They are destroying this fishery. The big rainbows are largely gone and nothing is being done about it. Senator John Kyle (sp) of AZ tried to step in but he was overwhelmed by the liberals of Ed Abby's home state.
So its not just other fish being killed, but trout. I wonder if the recovery program in this state will someday expand removals to trout? In fact Bob Burdick, one of the worst culprits of the Recovery Program, already kills rainbow and brown trout if he catches them in "his" fish ladder on the lower Gunnison River near GJ.
Trout are predators and are more aggressive and generally outcompete any fish in colder waters. But even though the FWS says it won't remove trout, I wonder how long its going to be before they start to consider it, of course without our permission, going only to the special interest "committees" for permission.

People, this is a serious threat. If the recovery program is not stopped , there might not be any gamefish or places to fish in the Colorado basin. They told me if they could have their way, they would go back to the entire Western Part of the state, which is almost three fourths of the state, being nothing but chubs, suckers, whitefish, squawfish, and the RARE cutthroat that were present in only a handful of small areas in a handful of drainages.

I think we anglers have GOT to unite, even if we have differences, and end the recovery program if it involves destroying our fisheries. If we simply educate the people that it does nothing and that the ESA in general has failed, they will no longer support it and the call for change will be overwhelming.
 

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The ESA has problems, I will be the first to admit it.

Actually the liberal harvest and bows being thrown on the bank will end up helping the Lee's Ferry rainbow fishery in the long run. The big fish a LF are gone. It is because there are too many bows in the river competing for too little of food. Most of the fish in river are in 12-16" range. When was the last time you heard of a 22" bow being caught on a regular basis? Thin the fishery out, and the hogs will come back.

The sky is not falling.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
ClackaRam said:
The ESA has problems, I will be the first to admit it. 

Actually the liberal harvest and bows being thrown on the bank will end up helping the Lee's Ferry rainbow fishery in the long run.  The big fish a LF are gone.  It is because there are too many bows in the river competing for too little of food.  Most of the fish in river are in 12-16" range.  When was the last time you heard of a 22" bow being caught on a regular basis?  Thin the fishery out, and the hogs will come back. 

The sky is not falling.
I actually agree with you on this one, go figure. Still it needs to be stopped at a certain point though. On another point, Lee's Ferry is proof that allowing bait is okay on most all trophy trout fisheries, especially in huge rivers like the Colorado.
Back when bait was allowed, fishing pressure was manyfold more intense. Not only that, but fish numbers were way higher and also bigger fish were far more common.
This is what all the guides on lake powell echo. They know what has happened with lee's ferry and it shows bait can be allowed on most all trophy fisheries.
What waters do I support in Colorado being flies and lures only? Small sections of the fryingpan, taylor, blue, east, uncompaghre, and south platte. For lakes, two of the delaneys and POSSIBLY Spinney. If some other small lakes with great fishing are open to the public (such as Marston and Colorado Springs Reservoirs), I would support flies and lures only regs. I also support flies and lures only regs on the Jerry Creek Reservoirs where I fish.
All other waters, without exception, should be open to bait in colorado.
 

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Sometimes catch and release fishing loves a fishery to death...or at least to smaller sized fish overall fish death...see the 15 inch minimum for bass...and I am all for selective harvest...
 

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the 15 inch minimum for bass is better than having no length minimum at all, and it is very good when put in place with a developing bass population. It cannot grow big bass generally though.
As for the wild trout being slaughtered, it is good for the fishery at lee's ferry but that's not the point. The point is they are slaughtering them, not to help the fishery, but to help fish most nobody wants. On the gunnison, you fail to mention that where that fish latter is there are very few trout in that area anyway. They also do kill all catfish, etc, though.
 

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i think if you have a group of lakes like the delaneys that you can't make 2 of them fly and lure and one of them bait lakes. because people are already so stupid that they can't read the signs all over the lakes that say basically no bait fishing, so if you make one of the lakes available for bait then dummies will be fishing all three with bait. i wouldn't support this. the no bait rule keeps alot of riff raff out(people that don't care about the fishery) these lakes dont have a problem with big fish, they just are not easy to catch.most have been caught and released before.
 

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Jamie-I do understand what you're saying but you are arguing that many people are too stupid to follow even the simplest of rules. Regretably, I agree. And its not so much that they're too stupid, it that the don't care about the rules and regs.

My solution would be to increase the fines to make them care. How about making the fine for fishing without a liscense $500. If their fishing with bait where its flys and lures only-$500. Keeping fish under the lenth limit or keeping too many fish-$500. Starting to see a trend here? ;D Honestly I would like to see the fines increased to $1000. Because I don't break the rules and I want the lawbreakers off our waters.

Why can't the DOW do this?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
kirbydog said:
Jamie-I do understand what you're saying but you are arguing that many people are too stupid to follow even the simplest of rules.  Regretably, I agree.  And its not so much that they're too stupid, it that the don't care about the rules and regs.

My solution would be to increase the fines to make them care.  How about making the fine for fishing without a liscense $500.  If their fishing with bait where its flys and lures only-$500.  Keeping fish under the lenth limit or keeping too many fish-$500.  Starting to see a trend here? ;D  Honestly I would like to see the fines increased to $1000.  Because I don't break the rules and I want the lawbreakers off our waters. 

Why can't the DOW do this? 
The fines for fishing without a license or fishing with bait where it's prohibited is $48 and five points against your license.
With so many waters flies and lures only in CO, I DO NOT support tougher fines against bait fishermen.
 

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i agree with you kirby, shoot, i say take away their licence for a year on the first offense, if you don't break the law what do you have to worry about anyway. how do some people know how much the fines are??(maybe personal experience) i guess if ya follow the rules no problem. i catch bigger fish without bait anyway...
 

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it's probably just me, but i don't think Baitfishers are the problem. STUPIDITY is the problem. I've seen and talked to people that have "made a small exception" to the rules, and some used bait and some just lures. The problem is they do it once, get away with it, and say why not?
we need to figure out how to change the "Why Not?"
mentality.
 

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Big fines are ok with me. I follow the regs and expect other people to follow them also. I can't tell you how many 17 3/4 inch walleye I have released. I wonder how many are kept? Catch the people who flaunt the rules and fine them and put enough points on their license to make them know its a serious thing..

Dan
 

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The other thing -I would really increase the fines on littering. Just sickens me having to look at all the trash slobs leave behind. I know alot of others are too. The fine is $100? I'd make it alot more than that and some jail time for the worst offenders. Maybe make them spend a weekend picking up trash at a lake.

They need to bring back the stock in the public square-you know where they would lock peoples heads in and you could throw stuff at them. :eek: I can just hear the ACLU's opinion on that one!!! But I bet it would cut way down on repeat offenders.
 
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