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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I got word that the Mussel inspector was telling boaters that there were too many large fish in the lake and the division of wildlife wants them thinned out.
I went over there this morning and had a nice talk with him, after explaining how much effort we've put into keeping it a quality fishery and this goes against all our efforts, when questioned exactly where he heard this from he told me he didn't actually here it from the DPW, it came from a fishing guide that guides on the lake that is from Grand Lake. So I call Jim Gasner from Rocky Mountain outfitters up and he tries to tell me that there are too many large Pike in the lake and that Jon Ewert wants help reducing the population of Large "over the slot" Pike so we can have more small Pike. After arguing with him how wrong this is and getting nowhere for a while I hung up thinking WTF?

Williams fork has had a slot for Pike for over 40 years and it has never been a problem.

The DPW wanted to take the limit off Pike Statewide and we spoke up at the meetings and were able to keep the slot protection on WF.

Having a good population of Large Pike helps keep the small ones from overpopulating and the Lake has maintained them while being a viable fishery for all other species throughout it's history.

The Pike were originally planted to control the sucker population which they have done a great job of while giving us opportunities for a quality fishery and without much successful Spawning ground terrain have coexisted throughout the history of the lake.

Other Lakes that have had large Pike eliminated have become over run with Hammer handles.

The Mussel inspector didn't specify Pike and was telling anglers to keep all large fish.

Lakes with Large Pike in them tend too have much larger Rainbows and browns in them due to the pike controlling the suckers that outcompete the trout for forage a good example of this is Lake John that gets poisoned annually too control Suckers due to no predators.

At the only Lake in the state with any protection on Pike that has never been a problem for over 40 years it was unfortunate to see misinformed Mussel inspectors spreading garbage from of all people a guide on the lake.

A new level of stupidity... It aint broke so lets fix it?

With all the problems with the fish managers general attitude against predators, the loss of trophy fisheries and access at many areas it's unfortunate to see these kind of things at a special place like WF.
 

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new idea boycott rocky mountain outfitters till they get there head out of there ass. like everything money, or lack there of ,makes people smarter in the long run.
 

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This is not good... a Jim and Jon are teaming up to take large pike from WF! Fish that are over the legal slot also!
What is the reason for this?
I guess that for Jim and his clients it's better the catch quantity over quality. A bunch of little stunted fish over a chance at some real trophies. Or is it something else?

Can you share with us what Jims reasons were for thinking this way? Seems kind of wierd that the bio for this lake wants the same thing... could it have something to do with protecting the kokanee in the lake.. hmmm
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
This is not good... a Jim and Jon are teaming up to take large pike from WF! Fish that are over the legal slot also!
What is the reason for this?
I guess that for Jim and his clients it's better the catch quantity over quality. A bunch of little stunted fish over a chance at some real trophies. Or is it something else?

Can you share with us what Jims reasons were for thinking this way? Seems kind of wierd that the bio for this lake wants the same thing... could it have something to do with protecting the kokanee in the lake.. hmmm

It's total BS, the mussel guy stated to the anglers on Saturday that they want to kill large Lake Trout also, from Jon's own netting population studies they show the large Lakers as being a very very low percentage of the population.
The Mussel inspectors have No business telling Anglers this kind of garbage. When we tried to get them to help do census's on the anglers since they are there all day anyway they wanted no part of it.

A temporary employee with no background of the lake conditions has no business telling anglers what they should or shouldn't do when it comes to fish management and spreading wrong information.

The Kokanee have been doing poorly the last few years due to Gill lice.

The Lake gets a good amount of stocker and Fingerling Rainbows.

The reason for the Slot on Pike was to provide Anglers the opportunity of a quality Pike fishery.
 

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Thats a bummer, perhaps someones knee caps need some work!?!

I kid, I kid. Just sucks!! and its very irritating hearing this. I don't fish for pike but no telling how long until some inspector is telling people the same thing for fish I do target.
 

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WTF is wrong with these people. And some of Them 'supposedly" work for Us? They oughta go to Minnesota (or any State with a PIKE population) and observe what happens when You end up with a lake with "stunted" predatory fish...
AND then, telling an ANS person to tell everyone to take "big fish"
How STUPID is that?
 

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RMO should know better than to shoot themselves in the foot by removing picture worthy fish for their clients. As far as the Mussel inspector goes, it is a seasonal job paying between 9-10$ an hour. Taking his advice on fisheries management is like asking a McDonalds employee nutrition advice.
 

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Truth vs Fiction

For those of you who know Rocky Mountain Outfitters, you know that take great pride in working and looking out for the health of our area fisheries. We are out to protect all fish and do our best to educate anglers in how to do this. I'm not sure where redleader gets the idea that we are out to kill big pike. We are well aware of fish populations in our area lakes.

If anyone has any questions or interested in hearing what we actually think feel free to call or email us anytime.

[email protected]
970-798-8021
 

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Did you or did you not tell people the big pike in WF need thinned out?
 

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I think that most would agree that the best approach would be for you to clearly state your position openly on this forum. That eliminates any denial of what might or might not have been discussed in the phone calls that you suggest. Seeking private communications would appear to accomplish only the clouding of your position statement and is less than upfront. Why allow for the potential for further confusion?
 

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I'm not sure where redleader gets the idea that we are out to kill big pike. We are well aware of fish populations in our area lakes.
Redleaders quote from phone call to RMO, "So I call Jim Gasner from Rocky Mountain outfitters up and he tries to tell me that there are too many large Pike in the lake and that Jon Ewert wants help reducing the population of Large "over the slot" Pike so we can have more small Pike. After arguing with him how wrong this is and getting nowhere for a while I hung up thinking WTF?"


Guess RMO doesn't read too well either.
 

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Really?

Guess RMO isn't getting my business anymore. williams fork is one of the main lakes I fish in grand county.... Why destroy a fishery like this. Hopefully this got plugged on the other sites and fish hound.
 

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If anybody call his # he will have your number to add to a business call sheet. I also say we call for a boycott of RMO if he won't answer our questions on an open forum! Evidently he knows nothing about pike or WF!!!
 

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For those of you who know Rocky Mountain Outfitters, you know that take great pride in working and looking out for the health of our area fisheries. We are out to protect all fish and do our best to educate anglers in how to do this. I'm not sure where redleader gets the idea that we are out to kill big pike. We are well aware of fish populations in our area lakes.

If anyone has any questions or interested in hearing what we actually think feel free to call or email us anytime.

[email protected]
970-798-8021
When I first started fishing again, and had never fished grand/granby or the area they were great. Showed me spots on a map, even through in a few lures I didn't purchase, short story they put me on fish. I would hate not to go there or refer people, but the blatant dodge of the question at hand is troubling. If it's twisted... Untwist it. If it's total BS... Say so. If it's true but needs explanation... Well a shame to not explain yourself?? WTF?
 

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For those of you who know Rocky Mountain Outfitters, you know that take great pride in working and looking out for the health of our area fisheries. We are out to protect all fish and do our best to educate anglers in how to do this. I'm not sure where redleader gets the idea that we are out to kill big pike. We are well aware of fish populations in our area lakes.

If anyone has any questions or interested in hearing what we actually think feel free to call or email us anytime.

[email protected]
970-798-8021
So are you calling Steve a liar? Did you say it or not. Just post it here, dont be a turd.
 

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Sucker control seems to be a bigger problem in our reservoirs than over predation of kokanne and rainbow trout. The fact that those over the slot pike put a huge dent in the sucker populations makes up for the fact that they do reduce Rainbow populations. Look at the states management report and you will see Willies has lower sucker populations than GM and Dillon. .

Also before Gill Lice, it had some of the best kokanne fishing in the state and it has ALWAYS had big pike and big lakers at the same time it had excellent kokanee fishing.
And if you want to catch a reservoir rainbow that is fat healthy and robust, than Willies is a good place for that as well.

The school of thought that Pike and Lake Trout are to voracious and a detriment to our fisheries has been passed down through the ranks of the CPW and is deeply ingrained at this point. This school of thought did not become prevalent until the late 80's ad early nineties when a certain individual became Head fisheries biologist and teamed up with another individual who is in charge of the aquatics research at CSU.
The two of them got together and set out to prove predation of kokanne salmon and rainbow trout by lake trout and pike was a huge problem and coud crash our fisheries. They performed studies and published them and they are the only no anecdotal studies that have been performed. So Its only natural that the subordances of the two main individuals would fully believe, and agree with those old studies that had a purpose.

When I put myself in the shoes of a fisheries manager and started thinking what could I do to make sure there are more Kokanne and Rainbows for people to catch, I start thinking that Eliminating gill lice will be extremely hard or impossible. Eliminating Mysis will be impossible, Controlling reservoir water levels despite drought or heavy runoff to host kokanne recruitment is impossible. And then asking for more rainbows when budgets and demands only allow I get so many will also be nearly impossible. I have to do something and do a job, I want my bosses to see I am working hard and paying attention so I can keep my job. So what's another more possible and doable solution? Reduce the amount of large fish that are eating the kokes and bows. This is an especially good solution when my bosses including the head honcho of CSU aquatics research would agree with my decision.

Its time for them to draw the line, and finaly realize that kokanne are not the holy grail of Colorado fishing, and that stocker rainbows are for put and take, both for humans, and Big fish. Its time for them to shift the focus and see that having quality kokanne fishing is not do or die when it comes to making the fisherman happy. We need some balance, and we need atleast one reservoir in this area that is managed for trophy fishing and Williams Fork is the best choice.

Statewide, Its time to stop going all in for kokanne and maybe single out a a couple reservoirs for kokanne, such as blue mesa and wolford. We neen to and start shifting the focus to the hatcheries, and doing what it takes to produce more catchable rainbows to stock our reservoirs with in order to keep anglers AND big fish happy.
 
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